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Roll The Quad - Wake Forest NIL with noteworthy support

PhDeac said:
Just got an ESPN alert that Mack expects Drake Maye to return next season. It's a sad state of affairs that it's newsworthy that the ACC redshirt freshman ROY/OPOY/POY QB is returning to play for a team preparing for the conference championship.
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I may be wrong and hope I am wrong. But, I see this situation possibly regressing to the 70's where football factories recruited 150 players and everyone else pretty much sucked. And if a QB should go down in the next month for a Michigan or tOSU, who's to say they won't contact Maye with $10 million in hand? He's staying.... for now.
 
Couch is not loved where I live. He wants to build a mega development, which includes 600 apartments. I personally think the development will be good for the community but a lot of others are very upset with him. There has been a lot of shouting at town meetings. Some people just can’t stand progress.
 
TheAbster said:
I may be wrong and hope I am wrong. But, I see this situation possibly regressing to the 70's where football factories recruited 150 players and everyone else pretty much sucked. And if a QB should go down in the next month for a Michigan or tOSU, who's to say they won't contact Maye with $10 million in hand? He's staying.... for now.
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Certainly a scary thought. Was it BYU that has a collective to cover tuition for walk-ons?
 
I think it’s fine to discuss this topic and be critical of Wake at the same time so long as we recognize that we’re probably one of the cleanest dirty shirts.

Fuck throwing WF under the bus at the same time as the likes of Louisville, Miami, TAMU, USC, etc.
 
Also, the NCAA should be ashamed. There should be a bonus pool for all conference players and top bowl/conference championship performers as well as a base payment that pays in tiers based on a D1 athlete, D2 athlete, basketball player, football player, etc. It might be controversial, (it shouldn’t be) but men and women athletes should get the same base monthly payment.

I help run compensation plans for a lot of larger companies (mostly nonprofits) and a matching or vested bonus that ratchets up for key executives if they defer taking short or long term incentive compensation can be critical in keeping on certain people and having them perform at a high level. Think about what this would do for the chaos in the transfer portal. It would be akin to helping stud freshman and sophomores stay in school and from trying to go pro or transfer to a different school. Think of how many more people would stay in college if they were right on the edge of being a real pro or a dreamer - maybe if the NCAA paid them a handsome sum to come back for their junior year, they’d stay.

The TV contract money would the tricky part. I think a portion of the profits should help fund the profit pools for the various top performing athletes, but a base percentage amount should be managed to pay out the required base payment for all student-athletes.

And if a kid does shitty in school, they lose a portion of their base pay. If a school is caught for any reason, whatsoever, for violating academic/ethical codes, all base payments for all student athletes at that school are suspended for a period of time depending on the severity of the violations.

NIL is like giving your kid sugar for breakfast because they won’t stop screaming. It’s a bad short term solution and it won’t work long term. Would be nice if the adults at the NCAA would step up.
 
PhDeac said:
Just got an ESPN alert that Mack expects Drake Maye to return next season. It's a sad state of affairs that it's newsworthy that the ACC redshirt freshman ROY/OPOY/POY QB is returning to play for a team preparing for the conference championship.
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Ph, I can’t understand what might be going on at ND? Why would their 10 game starter at QB be entering the transfer portal?
 
Is Mack Brown expecting everyone to believe that unc isn't waiving NIL money at other team's players? Because I don't buy that for one second.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Is Mack Brown expecting everyone to believe that unc isn't waiving NIL money at other team's players? Because I don't buy that for one second.
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You don't understand that the world revolves around Chapel Hill? Their sh** hasn't stunk for decades.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if what the old man has a problem with is that this new landscape doesn't insulate the haves (which he sure perceives unc is one) from recruiting competition. This sort of thing has happened upward to the sec and other elite programs forever. NIL seems like it's making it possible for teams like Alabama (which he likely compares unc) to be poached as well.
 
Mack is worried because he recruits well, but can't turn it into enough success on the field... That's a recipe for losing players to the portal.

Because of the Maye / UNC connection, I don't think he'll transfer elsewhere, but who knows these days.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Is Mack Brown expecting everyone to believe that unc isn't waiving NIL money at other team's players? Because I don't buy that for one second.
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He is trying to claim it on a technicality. As in, UNC itself isn't waving money at players, but private collectives organized by alumni sure as shit are. Jimbo Fisher feigned indignation when people said aTm was paying players because he was one degree removed from the payment entity.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
Also, the NCAA should be ashamed. There should be a bonus pool for all conference players and top bowl/conference championship performers as well as a base payment that pays in tiers based on a D1 athlete, D2 athlete, basketball player, football player, etc. It might be controversial, (it shouldn’t be) but men and women athletes should get the same base monthly payment.

I help run compensation plans for a lot of larger companies (mostly nonprofits) and a matching or vested bonus that ratchets up for key executives if they defer taking short or long term incentive compensation can be critical in keeping on certain people and having them perform at a high level. Think about what this would do for the chaos in the transfer portal. It would be akin to helping stud freshman and sophomores stay in school and from trying to go pro or transfer to a different school. Think of how many more people would stay in college if they were right on the edge of being a real pro or a dreamer - maybe if the NCAA paid them a handsome sum to come back for their junior year, they’d stay.

The TV contract money would the tricky part. I think a portion of the profits should help fund the profit pools for the various top performing athletes, but a base percentage amount should be managed to pay out the required base payment for all student-athletes.

And if a kid does shitty in school, they lose a portion of their base pay. If a school is caught for any reason, whatsoever, for violating academic/ethical codes, all base payments for all student athletes at that school are suspended for a period of time depending on the severity of the violations.

NIL is like giving your kid sugar for breakfast because they won’t stop screaming. It’s a bad short term solution and it won’t work long term. Would be nice if the adults at the NCAA would step up.
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I 100% agree with this is principle, but since college athletics is almost exclusively a business and professional enterprise now, paying men and women thee same base pay is about as logical as having the same base minimum salary for the WNBA as the NBA. But again I hear you; just think that we've quickly gone past the point of reason and fairness with this NIL thing.
I can't imagine what some of the crazy conversations/rumors are amongst every major college football locker-room right now about whose coming/going who's getting this amount of $$ from this/that program. I'd be in favor of ripping the band aid off and having full-disclosure on every player's NIL deal so say a recruit or potential transfer can clearly see what the potential market is for their position and skill level.
 
DownEastDeac said:
I 100% agree with this is principle, but since college athletics is almost exclusively a business and professional enterprise now, paying men and women thee same base pay is about as logical as having the same base minimum salary for the WNBA as the NBA. But again I hear you; just think that we've quickly gone past the point of reason and fairness with this NIL thing.
I can't imagine what some of the crazy conversations/rumors are amongst every major college football locker-room right now about whose coming/going who's getting this amount of $$ from this/that program. I'd be in favor of ripping the band aid off and having full-disclosure on every player's NIL deal so say a recruit or potential transfer can clearly see what the potential market is for their position and skill level.
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Agree…it’s a long shot and a there are a lot of holes in my post. Just feel that student-athletes should be just that and the NCAA needs to emphasize one of their main duties again - eligibility criteria. If rules are going to be broken for a few schools and a few athletes here and there with them not caring…well screw it all and let it run amok. It’s unfair for the schools trying to play by the rules to have to compete with those that clearly aren’t. Level the playing field. NIL is one way to do it, but it’s not a great way and probably won’t last.
 
If schools start paying directly, then such payments would need to be equal for men and women under title IX.

Collectives and other NIL deals are done by entities that are not the schools. Hence, they don't need to meet Title IX.
 
Deaconblue said:
If schools start paying directly, then such payments would need to be equal for men and women under title IX.

Collectives and other NIL deals are done by entities that are not the schools. Hence, they don't need to meet Title IX.
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I can see 1,000,001 ways around this. And I think that's your point as well.
 
Yeah, the only way to regulate all of this is for the NCAA to be the payor. It’s a viable solution but likely won’t ever happen.
 
There seems to be a disconnect here about what NIL is.

While athletic programs (specifically football, and to a smaller extent men's hoop) benefit by keeping and attracting players via NIL deals, NIL deals are, by their nature, financial agreements between athletes and third-parties -- not between the schools and the athletes.

Opposing NIL freedom for college athletes, the NCAA argued that it had the authority to ban such deals because they arose from the fact that the athlete was in position to receive these deals because they played for Bama in football or Kentucky in basketball. Among other things, the NCAA argued that it was in the public's interest to allow the NCAA to ban or regulate NIL deals because without NCAA oversight, competitive balance would be destroyed, NIL deals would not be fairly administered (as in male athletes getting paid more) and that it violated the founding principle that college athletes are amateurs. The Supreme Court rejected those arguments and ruled that the NCAA can't stop college athletes from negotiating NIL deals with these third parties.

In light of the NIL ruling, schools, conferences and the NCAA can not:

  • Cap the amount an athletes receive
  • Act to ensure that male and female athletes receive the same amount
  • Regulate the NIL deals in any meaningful way
Schools are pretty much limited to reviewing the proposed NIL contracts with the athletes to ensure they comply with applicable law and don't violate the remaining NCAA rules which are in place. While there is no doubt that NIL has been predictably perverted to favor schools with rich boosters as a way to pay recruits, potential transfers and their own players to help their favorite college program (typically football), the essential purpose of NIL is to allow the individual athlete to exploit the available market to maximize his (or her) value. This never was and never will be about making sure all athletes (male or female; football or cross country) get paid a minimum amount or don't exceed a maximum amount. So, there will never be a cap, and there will never be a system to ensure that there is equality in pay.

If Jeff Bezos wants to pay only the white male athletes at Princeton (his alma mater) for some BS Amazon promo gig, he can do that. There is nothing that the NCAA, the conferences or the schools can do to stop it, other than to shutdown their program.
 
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Is there any attempt, real or feigned, to actually tie the money an athlete receives to some aspect of value in their "name, image, and likeness"? In other words, when I think of NIL I think of the athletes monetizing their social media presence - that clearly fits into the intention of allowing athletes to profit from their notoriety. What I don't think of is collectives loosely associated with a school pooling tens of millions of dollars from boosters to hand to athletes to play for their school. That is just pay-for-play, right? Is there any difference contemplated in the current rules? Or, are there any current rules at all?
 
The NCAA still has rules prohibiting pay for play (and the states that have NIL regulations in place vaguely say the same), but because NIL is by its nature completely subjective, unless the person offering the NIL deal is a complete idiot, it's easy to skirt the pay for play requirement. USC boosters reportedly offered and Pitt WR Jordan Addison accepted a seven-figure NIL deal through which Addison participated in a content and engagement campaign, publicizing new routes for United Airlines, which "fell into place" right after Addison transferred: Addison/United Deal, which appeared to amount to few Instagram posts by Addison promoting United flights.

Was this pay for play? Yes. But Addison did minimal amount of work and the "value" of that work is subjective essentially the going rate is whatever the market will pay. If Flow Motors wants to pay $50K to Taylor Morin to sign autographs at Flow dealerships a couple of times per semester, the NIL police aren't going to step in and say the deal is beyond reasonable market parameters.
 
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