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2023 Carolina Panthers thread - HOF Julius Peppers

TimmyClutch said:
When you read about Stroud's background and high school years, he seems much more like an unfinished product than Young. I take that as Stroud having more upside. Young, on the other hand, has had all the tutoring and individual coaching for years and years, resulting in him the top recruiting prospect his year, surrounded by Alabama talent, some people may think that Young has already reached the peak of his potential.

I don't have a dog in this fight, just my two cents, but the Panthers are a couple years away from a Super Bowl run, so they may be leaning towards a guy who can grow with the team. Also Reich has only started two QB's under 6'3 in his career, and they were both last season with the colts when he needed warm bodies.
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interesting point

both guys are from southern california

stroud went to a big ole public school (although one that has a few recent nfl alums) and young went to national powerhouse mater dei
 
are we saying Young has #peaked, while Stroud has more room to improve?
 
Most NFL-caliber QBs can physically make most of the necessary throws most of the time. The difference between the successful ones and the bad ones are who can make the right reads combined with the throws in super short amount of time, with sophisticated defenses trying to bait them into the wrong throws. You don't have to go any further than Sam Darnold to find a guy who has all the physical ability but is routinely criticized for not getting the mental aspects up to speed and "seeing ghosts". Even Cam, who is not stupid by any means, had trouble with the mental side of the game.

tOSU QBs in the Meyer/Day offense are notorious dumbasses. They run the play that the coaching staff tells them to run and make the throw that their coaching staff tells them to make to their superior teammate behind their superior Oline and march down the field. There is no autonomy. Tyrelle Prior, Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Justin Fields - they didn't all suck at the NFL level because of a lack of physical ability, they sucked because they are dumbasses who couldn't keep up mentally. You don't need to be a rocket scientist, but you need to have some brainpower. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Mahomes - all pretty damn smart guys though maybe a bit eccentric in certain ways.

CJ Stroud is, by all accounts and his own media presence to date, a dumbass. "Room to grow" and "upside" does not translate to "getting smarter". Once a dumbass, always a dumbass. Obviously he can learn new things, but he isn't going to increase his "processing" speed, as the millennials would say.

As much as I equally dislike Bama QBs historically, at least Young has been calling the shots in that offense for years. His biggest attribute is his mental capacity and decision-making. That is what is needed to succeed as a QB at the NFL level between guys who already have the general physical ability. I would take his proven mental ability over Stroud's (and obviously AR's) potential physical room for improvement but low IQ any day. You can't fix stupid.
 
buckets said:
interesting point

both guys are from southern california

stroud went to a big ole public school (although one that has a few recent nfl alums) and young went to national powerhouse mater dei
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I'm not a psychologist are anything, but there are differences between the two guys.

CJ was the youngest of a family of 6, his dad was in jail most of his life, and he didn't' become a high school starter until his senior year, ended up being a 5 star. His family barely had enough money for cleats, let alone private QB tutors.

Bryce Young grew up in Pasadena, an only child and the son of a motivational speaker and therapist. He has had a QB coach since the age of 5. He transferred into Mater Dei for more exposure. He was the #2 overall high school recruit.

There is an old allegory about two baseball players who had the same time running to first base, one with perfect form and the other with poor form. Which one do you pick? Well the guy with poor, because once you teach him the right form, he beats the other guy.
 
TimmyClutch said:
I'm not a psychologist are anything, but there are differences between the two guys.

CJ was the youngest of a family of 6, his dad was in jail most of his life, and he didn't' become a high school starter until his senior year, ended up being a 5 star. His family barely had enough money for cleats, let alone private QB tutors.

Bryce Young grew up in Pasadena, an only child and the son of a motivational speaker and therapist. He has had a QB coach since the age of 5. He transferred into Mater Dei for more exposure. He was the #2 overall high school recruit.

There is an old allegory about two baseball players who had the same time running to first base, one with perfect form and the other with poor form. Which one do you pick? Well the guy with poor, because once you teach him the right form, he beats the other guy.
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There's also the "started on 3rd base" analogy here. Stroud won the Elite 11 MVP FWIW (not much) in a surprise after he blew up late.
 
i watched strouds combine interview, maybe unpolished, but dumbass did not come across at all.

his film also suggests he’s great at processing reads quickly. his biggest knock is lack of tape showing him making plays out of structure, though he did this against UGA
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Most NFL-caliber QBs can physically make most of the necessary throws most of the time. The difference between the successful ones and the bad ones are who can make the right reads combined with the throws in super short amount of time, with sophisticated defenses trying to bait them into the wrong throws. You don't have to go any further than Sam Darnold to find a guy who has all the physical ability but is routinely criticized for not getting the mental aspects up to speed and "seeing ghosts". Even Cam, who is not stupid by any means, had trouble with the mental side of the game.

tOSU QBs in the Meyer/Day offense are notorious dumbasses. They run the play that the coaching staff tells them to run and make the throw that their coaching staff tells them to make to their superior teammate behind their superior Oline and march down the field. There is no autonomy. Tyrelle Prior, Cardale Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Justin Fields - they didn't all suck at the NFL level because of a lack of physical ability, they sucked because they are dumbasses who couldn't keep up mentally. You don't need to be a rocket scientist, but you need to have some brainpower. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Mahomes - all pretty damn smart guys though maybe a bit eccentric in certain ways.

CJ Stroud is, by all accounts and his own media presence to date, a dumbass. "Room to grow" and "upside" does not translate to "getting smarter". Once a dumbass, always a dumbass. Obviously he can learn new things, but he isn't going to increase his "processing" speed, as the millennials would say.

As much as I equally dislike Bama QBs historically, at least Young has been calling the shots in that offense for years. His biggest attribute is his mental capacity and decision-making. That is what is needed to succeed as a QB at the NFL level between guys who already have the general physical ability. I would take his proven mental ability over Stroud's (and obviously AR's) potential physical room for improvement but low IQ any day. You can't fix stupid.
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Justin Fields is far smarter than you, pal. Pryor (lol) was not a Meyer/Day product. Jones and Haskins (RIP) both scored 25s on the Wonderlic, right at the NFL QB average.

JSN was the most productive WR for 2021 tOSU behind 2 first round draft picks, including the offensive ROY. He's obviously a great talent as well, but you think he was the first read on most plays over Olave/Wilson? No chance.

Justin Fields scored the highest rating ever on a mental aptitude test​


https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/03/bears-nfl-draft-justin-fields-highest-aptitude-test-score/
 
tigerswood said:
Justin Fields is far smarter than you, pal. Pryor (lol) was not a Meyer/Day product. Jones and Haskins (RIP) both scored 25s on the Wonderlic, right at the NFL QB average.

JSN was the most productive WR for 2021 tOSU behind 2 first round draft picks, including the offensive ROY. He's obviously a great talent as well, but you think he was the first read on most plays over Olave/Wilson? No chance.

Justin Fields scored the highest rating ever on a mental aptitude test​


https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/03/bears-nfl-draft-justin-fields-highest-aptitude-test-score/
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But 2&2 created the mental aptitude test
 
tigerswood said:
Justin Fields is far smarter than you, pal. Pryor (lol) was not a Meyer/Day product. Jones and Haskins (RIP) both scored 25s on the Wonderlic, right at the NFL QB average.

JSN was the most productive WR for 2021 tOSU behind 2 first round draft picks, including the offensive ROY. He's obviously a great talent as well, but you think he was the first read on most plays over Olave/Wilson? No chance.

Justin Fields scored the highest rating ever on a mental aptitude test​


https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/03/bears-nfl-draft-justin-fields-highest-aptitude-test-score/
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What's your point? Jones and Haskins both sucked, and Fields sucks. I thought we weren't allowed to put any value on standardized testing anymore.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
They run the play that the coaching staff tells them to run and make the throw that their coaching staff tells them to make to their superior teammate behind their superior Oline and march down the field.
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Go back and watch CJ Stroud's most recent game again. You going to make the claim that he put up 348 yards/ 4 TDs/ 0 INTs against UGA because Ohio State's O line was superior to UGA's D line and Ohio State's WRs were superior to UGA's DBs?

A bad QB prospect doesn't do to UGA's defense what Stroud did. Neither does a dumb one.
 
deacon14 said:
Go back and watch CJ Stroud's most recent game again. You going to make the claim that he put up 348 yards/ 4 TDs/ 0 INTs against UGA because Ohio State's O line was superior to UGA's D line and Ohio State's WRs were superior to UGA's DBs?

A bad QB prospect doesn't do to UGA's defense what Stroud did. Neither does a dumb one.
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By that measure, Sam Hartman should be drafted. Look what he did to Clemson!!!
 
Probably would have been a little different if Nolan Smith was there on the edge during the Peach Bowl to bash Stroud's brains in, but it was a great performance. It was also comparable to what Bryce Young did in the SECCG a year earlier.
 
The Bears should bring in Fromm off the street to see how Fields reacts. He'll either get motivated or start throwing the ball over people's heads.
 
DeaconSig said:
By that measure, Sam Hartman should be drafted. Look what he did to Clemson!!!
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Wake Forest's WRs this past season were definitely better than Clemson's DBs, especially in that game with a few of their DBs out injured. CJ Stroud also has never done anything remotely similar to what Hartman did against Wisconsin, Pitt, or Louisville.

2&2 wants to attribute all of CJ Stroud's collegiate success to having teammates that were vastly superior to their opponents. While in many games that was true, CJ Stroud had one of his best games of the year in a game in which that wasn't true.
 
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