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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

There’s a significant difference between accepting mediocrity and accepting reality

If the argument is that Clawson’s bowl streak (not this past year…the seven consecutive years of going to bowls) is unacceptable mediocrity, then by all means advocate for him to be removed and list out his realistic replacements
 
macktheknife said:
Question for our resident lawyers. Multiple entities engaged in a contract. What prevents member institutions from suing Florida State separately? Like Wake, Duke, UVA and Stanford University lawyers launch lawsuits against Fla State ? Say you got a contract among 5 people . One goes rogue. Couldn't the others sue them?




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Asked a similar question earlier- shouldn't the ACC just terminate & expel the rogue f$u and force them to pay the $500+M for insubordination?!

We don't want them anymore. They're the plague.
 
thatguy2016 said:
There’s a significant difference between accepting mediocrity and accepting reality

If the argument is that Clawson’s bowl streak (not this past year…the seven consecutive years of going to bowls) is unacceptable mediocrity, then by all means advocate for him to be removed and list out his realistic replacements
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Clawson’s ACC record is unacceptable mediocrity. In fact, it’s not even mediocrity. It’s just bad.
 
macktheknife said:
Question for our resident lawyers. Multiple entities engaged in a contract. What prevents member institutions from suing Florida State separately? Like Wake, Duke, UVA and Stanford University lawyers launch lawsuits against Fla State ? Say you got a contract among 5 people . One goes rogue. Couldn't the others sue them?




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Im not a lawyer but I would imagine there’s something in the bylaws about that and the other members are already effectively suing FSU through the conference.
 
6 mediocre seasons (3-5 or 4-4), 3 bad seasons (1-7), and 1 great season (7-1).
 
PhDeac said:
6 mediocre seasons (3-5 or 4-4), 3 bad seasons (1-7), and 1 great season (7-1).
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Agree with those. Also worth noting that the definition for mediocre at WF is much more lenient than most places.
 
deacdixieboy said:
Agree with those. Also worth noting that the definition for mediocre at WF is much more lenient than most places.
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Sure. But mediocre generally means middle so it fits.
 
If only us fans wouldn't accept mediocrity, the fact that we are a small private school with no football tradition trying to compete with large public universities would just fade away.

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macktheknife said:
Question for our resident lawyers. Multiple entities engaged in a contract. What prevents member institutions from suing Florida State separately? Like Wake, Duke, UVA and Stanford University lawyers launch lawsuits against Fla State ? Say you got a contract among 5 people . One goes rogue. Couldn't the others sue them?




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"Going rogue" is not a claim. I don't see anything in the suit that is false. Saying Oregon State football is better than Cal football is true.

The last I read the bylaws they did not have a clause for "must say good stuff always about the ACC." If that clause is in there now, I guess you could seek what damages you could prove for that.

The ACC already sued them in Charlotte. It seems the ACC is the one with standing if anyone has it.
 
WindyCityDeac said:
So….why do we celebrate this level of mediocrity? Because Wake Forest can’t ever be better than that?
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Because we HAVEN'T been better than that. At least not more than a few times.

There is a difference between accepting where we're at as the best we're ever going to be, and accepting where we're at as a step to the next level.

Programs generally don't go from 5 Bowl Games in 100 years to National Championship quality right away.

But programs DO go from 5 Bowl Games in 100 years, to 5 Bowl Games in 9 years, to 7 Bowl Games in 7 years, and then to the next level.

It takes time. We have a coach who has taken us to 40%+ of our Bowl Games in our entire history.

We are getting to a point where he should be able to get us to a Conference Championship contending team every few years, and then winning more frequently after that.

There are steps in a process and expecting to jump from 10 Bowl Games ("mediocrity") in 113 years to National Championship contending teams is unreasonable.

Yes, 1-7 in a season in conference is NOT good. It is unacceptable. But going 7-1 in conference is GREAT and something we should begin to EXPECT every handful of years if not more often.


Going .500 should never be acceptable as a high point in a P5 program or its history. But going .500 should be allowable in the interim between 5 bowls in 100 years and Conference/National Championships. We WILL get there, but the next step in the process is competing at the 10-Win season level/Top 25% of the conference, and then we go from there.

I would really like to know why some of you think going from losing 38 games in the last 5 years of Grobe to losing 26 in the last 5 years of Clawson ISN'T an improvement. That's the name of the game, improvement. That doesn't always mean more wins each successive year, but it does mean developing as a program as a whole, which I think just short of a decade should be the expected time table. We're right there. We also went to a conference championship game 2 years ago. Save your judgment until we have at least 2 back-to-back years like this year. Who knows how good we'll be next year.

You guys are basing expectations on the output with a 5 Year Record-Setting QB and NFL Receivers. Very few schools have that luxury, and we don't have the luxury of 5* recruits every year. So we need to accept that the Championship seasons will be every 3-4 years for now until we are able to bring in the steady flow of conference winning caliber players.

It's coming. Just give it more than 5 years.

/Pickle Rant
 
OblongPickle said:
Because we HAVEN'T been better than that. At least not more than a few times.

There is a difference between accepting where we're at as the best we're ever going to be, and accepting where we're at as a step to the next level.

Programs generally don't go from 5 Bowl Games in 100 years to National Championship quality right away.

But programs DO go from 5 Bowl Games in 100 years, to 5 Bowl Games in 9 years, to 7 Bowl Games in 7 years, and then to the next level.

It takes time. We have a coach who has taken us to 40%+ of our Bowl Games in our entire history.

We are getting to a point where he should be able to get us to a Conference Championship contending team every few years, and then winning more frequently after that.

There are steps in a process and expecting to jump from 10 Bowl Games ("mediocrity") in 113 years to National Championship contending teams is unreasonable.

Yes, 1-7 in a season in conference is NOT good. It is unacceptable. But going 7-1 in conference is GREAT and something we should begin to EXPECT every handful of years if not more often.


Going .500 should never be acceptable as a high point in a P5 program or its history. But going .500 should be allowable in the interim between 5 bowls in 100 years and Conference/National Championships. We WILL get there, but the next step in the process is competing at the 10-Win season level/Top 25% of the conference, and then we go from there.

I would really like to know why some of you think going from losing 38 games in the last 5 years of Grobe to losing 26 in the last 5 years of Clawson ISN'T an improvement. That's the name of the game, improvement. That doesn't always mean more wins each successive year, but it does mean developing as a program as a whole, which I think just short of a decade should be the expected time table. We're right there. We also went to a conference championship game 2 years ago. Save your judgment until we have at least 2 back-to-back years like this year. Who knows how good we'll be next year.

You guys are basing expectations on the output with a 5 Year Record-Setting QB and NFL Receivers. Very few schools have that luxury, and we don't have the luxury of 5* recruits every year. So we need to accept that the Championship seasons will be every 3-4 years for now until we are able to bring in the steady flow of conference winning caliber players.

It's coming. Just give it more than 5 years.

/Pickle Rant
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I’ll answer your question. Going 4-8 is not the whole reason why I’m currently off the Clawson train. It’s the way this whole season played out. Every single person knew that Griffis was not the QB, yet our coach continued to play him. Every single person knew that our playcalling needed to change, but it didn’t. Combine that with snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in multiple games over the last few years, as well as the predicted season collapses in November and I do not think Clawson can get us over the hump. Like you said, that progression to a title contender takes time, I also think it may take a few coaches. Grobe showed that you can win the ACC. Clawson has now shown that you can consistently be .500. IMO it may be time for the next guy to take the next step. Do I honestly think Clawson should be fired right now? No. But after the way this season played out I do not have a ton of confidence, especially with the continued whining about NIL.
 
deacdixieboy said:
I’ll answer your question. Going 4-8 is not the whole reason why I’m currently off the Clawson train. It’s the way this whole season played out. Every single person knew that Griffis was not the QB, yet our coach continued to play him. Every single person knew that our playcalling needed to change, but it didn’t. Combine that with snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in multiple games over the last few years, as well as the predicted season collapses in November and I do not think Clawson can get us over the hump. Like you said, that progression to a title contender takes time, I also think it may take a few coaches. Grobe showed that you can win the ACC. Clawson has now shown that you can consistently be .500. IMO it may be time for the next guy to take the next step. Do I honestly think Clawson should be fired right now? No. But after the way this season played out I do not have a ton of confidence, especially with the continued whining about NIL.
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I can't argue with anything in the first part of this post. This season was flabbergasting. I have no idea what was going on or why. The only conclusion I can come to is that there was SOME REASON that Clawson felt a change wouldn't do anything. Personally I think, as do most of us, that if it wouldn't change anything, what's the harm in just TRYING something different. A change should have been made this year, at least for an attempt at resurrecting the season.

But considering we haven't really seen anything like this from Clawson before, I am inclined to give him at least a small benefit of the doubt.

As far as the NIL stuff goes, I think that's going to be the case no matter who our coach is. If we were to let Clawson go soon, we would be going after an up and coming coach from a smaller school more than likely, and if that's the case, they probably won't be used to managing serious NIL money or the transfer portal either. That's why, barring repeated instances of this season, we should stick with Clawson until the transfer portal/NIL situations settle into a predictable or foreseeable pattern or expectations. When we can have a general outlook of how many and what kind of transfers we should expect and how much it's going to cost to replace or keep those players, I think consistency in the coaching department is our best bet.

Again, that's barring repeated far below .500 seasons.
 
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