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2023-24 Wake Forest Basketball Season - 21-14 (11-9) - KP#29 / NET#43

deacfan123 said:
They were not right, no matter what. Those losses mattered, and they mattered a lot. There is no "Path". The path is to win games and get in the tournament at the best seed possible, and to act like all the ones we let go didn't matter was so so stupid. They all mattered, and even more so now. If anything, I'd say they are more wrong now. We do not control our own destiny, if we won a couple of those, we are worried about seed, not the first four in/out.
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We 100% control our own destiny, what the hell are you talking about?
 
deaconson said:
This season has been an enthusiasm killer for me. So many missed opportunities. I keep holding out hope but then this last week happens.

I've already given up any hope that one of my kids might like to watch a game. i am not seeing signs of improvement. just the same lack of focus and attention to detail late game. It's just not worth the time commitment any longer. After the lost decade, this season may finally break me of my interest in watching the deacs.
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Love posts like this before games. The Deacs always play their best after people here claim to have given up on WF.

After suffering through the worst imaginable run of WF basketball for a decade and after Forbes has clearly raised the talent level and level of play, will never understand why anyone would quit on the team now. In 2019, after WF had not had a winning ACC record for 9 years, WF went 11-20 (4-14), and WF brought back DM for his sixth season; I understood quitting on WF basketball then. As much as I love WF in the ACC, that was just a waste of everyone's time with a directionless program.

WF basketball is in a totally different place now. Really don't understand how everyone doesn't see that. I understand the frustration with tough losses, but quitting on this team because WF is on the bubble again is simply weak. This is when basketball is its most fun and meaningful. If you can't deal with the fact a WF athletic program might break your heart, not sure how you ever got here, but giving up is lame.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
We 100% control our own destiny, what the hell are you talking about?
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I mean I guess if we win the ACCT. We are likely in with 3 wins and a loss, but that is not guaranteed. What if a pac 12 team steals a bid? And maybe another conference? And we lose to like Cuse in the tourney? We'd be on the line.
 
Pilchard said:
Love posts like this before games. The Deacs always play their best after people here claim to have given up on WF.

After suffering through the worst imaginable run of WF basketball for a decade and after Forbes has clearly raised the talent level and level of play, will never understand why anyone would quit on the team now. In 2019, after WF had not had a winning ACC record for 9 years, WF went 11-20 (4-14), and WF brought back DM for his sixth season; I understood quitting on WF basketball then. As much as I love WF in the ACC, that was just a waste of everyone's time with a directionless program.

WF basketball is in a totally different place now. Really don't understand how everyone doesn't see that. I understand the frustration with tough losses, but quitting on this team because WF is on the bubble again is simply weak. This is when basketball is its most fun and meaningful. If you can't deal with the fact a WF athletic program might break your heart, not sure how you ever got here, but giving up is lame.
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Yeah agree, not sure how you can be done after this team, hell this is the reason to be a fan, when you have a chance!
 
Pilchard said:
Love posts like this before games. The Deacs always play their best after people here claim to have given up on WF.

After suffering through the worst imaginable run of WF basketball for a decade and after Forbes has clearly raised the talent level and level of play, will never understand why anyone would quit on the team now. In 2019, after WF had not had a winning ACC record for 9 years, WF went 11-20 (4-14), and WF brought back DM for his sixth season; I understood quitting on WF basketball then. As much as I love WF in the ACC, that was just a waste of everyone's time with a directionless program.

WF basketball is in a totally different place now. Really don't understand how everyone doesn't see that. I understand the frustration with tough losses, but quitting on this team because WF is on the bubble again is simply weak. This is when basketball is its most fun and meaningful. If you can't deal with the fact a WF athletic program might break your heart, not sure how you ever got here, but giving up is lame.
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I'm not giving up before a game. I'm just losing enthusiasm for making time to watch wake bball. the lost decade killed any interest my kids may have developed and there is no getting that back. Now I have to watch whatever the heck is happening in our second halves.

I'm not reactionary. I love Forbes. I'm not calling for any heads to roll.

It's just not fun.
 
This year has been frustrating, but it has also been exhilarating because I literally have no idea what's going to happen on any given night. To each their own, but I have no idea how THIS year caused you to lose enthusiasm for Wake basketball. Objectively we are crazy to watch. Your kids should honestly love watching Wake because anything can happen in any given game/half. The game is never over.

We are certainly an outlier this year, but I once again IMPLORE people to at least watch the occasional other game than just Wake. We all are hypersensitive to things that Wake does, because that's all we care about, but there are plenty of teams who are doing roughly what we are doing (really good at home, really bad on the road), we have just done it in sensational fashion throughout the year.
 
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DeaconSig said:
Has basketball been fun and meaningful for State the last 7 years?
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Probably not so much, and think Keatts may be done, but he has had more time an NC State than Forbes at WF. Even though KK has taken the Pack to two more NCAATs than Forbes so far, subjetively feel like WF basketball is in a better place than NC State, but maybe others disagree on that point.

FWIW, yesterday, there was a big debate here about whether teams that played in the Dayton first four and lost 'made the NCAAT". There were passionate arguments on both sides, but have a hard time understanding the claim that NC State's 2023 NCAAT experience was any better than a first four loser's experience. NC State was a bubble team. They made the tournament as an 11 seed that avoided the play-in as the result of questionable seeding decisions (probably because Pitt was already seeded into Dayton and the Committee didn't want two ACC teams in the first four games). The Pack played Creighton in the round of 64 and led for less than 3 minutes before losing in a game that was never in doubt over the last 10 minutes. Does not seem like Pack fans feel any better about their team as the result of the 2023 NCAAT, and I understand why a Pack fan might feel that sliding in to the last 'bye' spot in the tournament really was not a difference-maker.
 
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Pilchard said:
Probably not so much, and think Keatts may be done, but he has had more time an NC State than Forbes at WF. Even though KK has taken the Pack to two more NCAATs than Forbes so far, subjetively feel like WF basketball is in a better place than NC State, but maybe others disagree on that point.

FWIW, yesterday, there was a big debate here about whether teams that played in the Dayton first four and lost 'made the NCAAT". There were passionate arguments on both sides, but have a hard time understanding the claim that NC State's 2023 NCAAT experience was any better than a first four loser's experience. NC State was a bubble team. They made the tournament as an 11 seed that avoided the play-in as the result of questionable seeding decisions. They played Creighton in the round of 64 and led for less than 3 minutes before losing in a game that was never in doubt over the last 10 minutes. Does not seem like Pack fans feel any better about their team as the result of the 2023 NCAAT, and I understand why a Pack fan might feel that sliding in to the last 'bye' spot in the tournament really was not a difference-maker.
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I'm not sure why we would assume Wake is in a better place than NCSU at this moment. Objectively, we hope to make 1 tourney in the past 7 seasons, while state (barring a tourney championship) will have made 2. State has had a winning record in 6 of 7 seasons (including the current one) while Wake has a wining record in 3 seasons. State won 20 games in at least 4 of those 7 seasons (20 games this year is not mathematically impossible, but would be a stretch), while Wake (hopefully 🙏) will have 2 20-win seasons after this season is over. And State will most likely hire a new coach after this season, which at least conceivably raises the chance of hiring a great coach. And the fact that State will most likely be hiring a new coach goes to show how the fanbase feels about the program.

As I posted a while back, my concern is that Forbes ends up with a program that looks a lot like State- competitive in most seasons, half-decent in a few, but never actually GOOD. State fans are completely demoralized because they had a coach who was just good enough not to fire. While that is better than having a bottom of the barrel program, it still isn't much fun.

I have reason to hope that Forbes will be better than Keatts. But I will also say I don't recall a season where I thought Keatts had as much talent as this Wake team (and arguably as much as the 2022 team), so the fact that he has 2 tourney bids and Forbes has zero at Wake doesn't fill me with confidence.
 
I would like to pretend we made the tournament over not actually making the tournament
 
DeaconSig said:
I'm not sure why we would assume Wake is in a better place than NCSU at this moment. Objectively, we hope to make 1 tourney in the past 7 seasons, while state (barring a tourney championship) will have made 2. State has had a winning record in 6 of 7 seasons (including the current one) while Wake has a wining record in 3 seasons. State won 20 games in at least 4 of those 7 seasons (20 games this year is not mathematically impossible, but would be a stretch), while Wake (hopefully 🙏) will have 2 20-win seasons after this season is over. And State will most likely hire a new coach after this season, which at least conceivably raises the chance of hiring a great coach. And the fact that State will most likely be hiring a new coach goes to show how the fanbase feels about the program.

As I posted a while back, my concern is that Forbes ends up with a program that looks a lot like State- competitive in most seasons, half-decent in a few, but never actually GOOD. State fans are completely demoralized because they had a coach who was just good enough not to fire. While that is better than having a bottom of the barrel program, it still isn't much fun.

I have reason to hope that Forbes will be better than Keatts. But I will also say I don't recall a season where I thought Keatts had as much talent as this Wake team (and arguably as much as the 2022 team), so the fact that he has 2 tourney bids and Forbes has zero at Wake doesn't fill me with confidence.
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Good points.

Have to counter that one of the KK two bids for the Pack was his first season, largely with players that Mark Gottfried left behind. John Wooden, assisted by Dean and K in their prime, would not have taken the refuse that DM left behind for Forbes in 2020 to the NCAAT. Forbes started at ground zero; KK started with a better program. With that said, Forbes has the portal which KK didn't have when he started, and Forbes has exploited that.

Will have to see where this goes. No one expected a thing out of 2022 WF; he was ACC COY; his team had a higher KP rating than any KK team ever, and WF didn't get a bid. KK took two lesser teams to the NCAAT. Does that make him a better coach or did circumstance break his way?

KK has never had a team rated higher than 50 in KP. Forbes has had two in the last three years, and might have had three had Damari not gotten hurt in 2023. Not buying that Forbes can't get his team to an NCAAT level, but that argument builds momentum if WF fails this year.
 
I think the season long notion that we are a middling team just trying to sneak into the tournament with enough “winnable” games is kinda silly. We beat Duke and followed it with a loss to Notre Dame, so how are we defining “winnable”? Seems like the only metric limiting our potential is where we play, not who we play.
 
On the subject of Keatts, not totally sure he gets fired after this year. Yeah they’ve been mediocre but not terrible. He had a fairly successful portal haul last season and has a pretty good SG/SF signed up for next year that’s a similar level to Juke, even somewhat better rated in some places. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him get another year. All depends on how much cash their big donors want to fork over to fire him and hire someone new.
 
Also no idea what his buyout looks like but he’s under contract through 2028 currently so it wouldn’t be crazy to let that burn down another year or two unless they are certain they can bring in a clear upgrade.
 
WRS said:
Also no idea what his buyout looks like but he’s under contract through 2028 currently so it wouldn’t be crazy to let that burn down another year or two unless they are certain they can bring in a clear upgrade.
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Keatts buyout is $5.4 million and can be paid out over four years. That is far less than what WF doled out in a settlement to buy-out' Forbes predecessor.
 
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