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fence rider moving BuzzOut...

His problem is he has never stayed anywhere long enough to reflect a ceiling (his own fault). Any reasonable projection would have had him as a better than .500 overall coach at CU last year. And Wake is a much better job and he is bringing in much better talent.

ETA: Yeah but .500 conference is a reasonable pessimistic view of his ceiling.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
His problem is he has never stayed anywhere long enough to reflect a ceiling (his own fault). Any reasonable projection would have had him as a better than .500 overall coach at CU last year. And Wake is a much better job and he is bringing in much better talent.

ETA: Yeah but .500 conference is a reasonable pessimistic view of his ceiling.
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Maybe. Or maybe he'd have hit his ceiling. The Buffs went 8-8 in conference last year and were not poorly coached. That was his payoff team. Wake is a better job, but he'll be playing against better teams (maybe not this specific year, but over the long haul). The difficulty level went up as well.

His next winning season in a BCS conference will be his first. There is really nothing to point to that makes it more reasonable to assume that his potential average is better than his performance, other than hope.
 
My main contention with your point was when I thought you were referencing overall record. I don't think viewing him as a .500 conference coach is unreasonable.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
My main contention with your point was when I thought you were referencing overall record. I don't think viewing him as a .500 conference coach is unreasonable.
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And you were right. Last season CO team is a good example of what I think Bzz's ceiling is: 24-14, 8-8 in conference, on the bubble even in good years.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
And you were right. Last season CO team is a good example of what I think Bzz's ceiling is: 24-14, 8-8 in conference, on the bubble even in good years.
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Hopefully he stays here for 4 years and we can see whether or not that is the case.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Hopefully he stays here for 4 years and we can see whether or not that is the case.
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I think we're going to, hope aside. This year will be excused for next year, and next year will be excused for inexperience. But he better kill it in year four.
 
We really won't be that inexperienced next year. I think we will only have 3 freshmen see heavy minutes in the rotation. Our two best players will be a senior and a junior. In college terms that's not bad. I think Bz needs a 20 win season next year, or damn close.
 
stonzm9 said:
Really hate this argument. It's true for pretty much any coach we realistically could have hired.
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True, but we could have hired a guy who hadn't failed yet instead of a guy who already has shown he's not a strong major conference head coach.
 
I'm just tired of the ridiculous need to throw BCS in front of every stat so we can ignore what little college success he's had. Air Force isn't a non-team. They'll probably be a BCS team in a year. It's such a transparent way to be able to only consider his Colorado years during a complete rebuild of a horrid program.

What's funny is that including Air Force doesn't even make his numbers good. It's just that you can't feed the ravenous, childish, petty [Redacted] bashing unless you throw them out.

Dude was an NBA coach. He's not a total idiot no matter how ugly his ties are or how bitter everyone gets about losing a shitload of games.

We look a little better this year. It's obvious to anyone with any knowledge of basketball. Hopefully we'll keep improving when the new class gets here. If not, fire the guy.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
I think it's reasonable to rate a career .484 coach with a 250 game sample size as a .500 coach. I think it's more reasonable that to assume otherwise.
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I don't recall you saying that about Dino Gaudio, who had a worse career winning percentage with a larger sample size.
 
stonzm9 said:
Really hate this argument. It's true for pretty much any coach we realistically could have hired.
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I don't buy that, but, even so, there are plenty of other places on Bzz's resume where other potential hires far outstripped him. Post season appearances, post season successes, big college program experience, recruiting track record, etc.

Also, most other potential hires were a) younger, making them a better gamble to suddenly exceed their past performance, or b) assistants from programs that regularly dominated college basketball, giving them at least shared understanding of success with a major BCS program, or c) big post-season winners in smaller ponds, indicating they might just need a better gig to keep climbing the success ladder.

Bzz had the rare combo of a 250 game sample size of sub-.500 performance, no big program experience, and no record of post season success (or even appearances, really). Any hope for sudden, career-aberrant success at Wake is totally hope-based.
 
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I wasn't a fan of the hire, but you can't just leave out the fact that he was an NBA coach.

If you really believed Wake needed to move towards Brad Stevens brand of basketball and he turned you down, [Redacted] fits in a lot of ways and has just enough credentials to be a stretch, but not insane, hire.

In the meantime, Butler just dropped their 5th game and haven't been competitive in some of their losses. Even Brad Stevens can't dominate with just any 7 guys.
 
DCDeac said:
I'm just tired of the ridiculous need to throw BCS in front of every stat so we can ignore what little college success he's had. Air Force isn't a non-team. They'll probably be a BCS team in a year. It's such a transparent way to be able to only consider his Colorado years during a complete rebuild of a horrid program.

What's funny is that including Air Force doesn't even make his numbers good. It's just that you can't feed the ravenous, childish, petty [Redacted] bashing unless you throw them out.

Dude was an NBA coach. He's not a total idiot no matter how ugly his ties are or how bitter everyone gets about losing a shitload of games.

We look a little better this year. It's obvious to anyone with any knowledge of basketball. Hopefully we'll keep improving when the new class gets here. If not, fire the guy.
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Again, you can't have it both ways. If you take his Air Force teams as valuable info about his abilities, you can not dismiss his first years at Wake and Colorado because "they weren't his teams" and "he inherited a bad team."

Also, as to improvement, I would hope that just practicing together for another year (even with a bad coach) they would show "improvement." The question is are they progressing as fast as they should/could.
 
Even I say that I have no doubts that [Redacted] knows the game of basketball, but I do not believe he knows how to properly teach it.

His NBA post has little to do with college coaching either. They are different versions of the same sport. That's it.
 
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