Bill Simmons on Chris Paul

[DeaconBrews]

If you worked five years for a bad company and did well, would you be considered a bad person for wanting to leave to work for a better company?

That's all this is.

RJ are you a Laker or a 76ers fan?

 

[RJKarl]

Sixers...don't like the Lakers at all....Spurs are probably #2.....

 

[Deac83]

The NBA isn't successful with parity, it is successful when the large market teams are winning. This isn't the NFL, where Green Bay and Pittsburgh can be successful and the league thrives. Parity sounds all sweet and nice and fair, but the average NBA fan doesn't give a crap about that. They want the Lakers and the Celtics in the Finals. The small markets need to stop spending their time trying to bring the elite franchises down, and invest their time and money more wisely into finding ways to compete with the elite on a higher level.

The problem is that the NBA model create a continuous group of haves and have nots.

Why don't we just get rid of the draft and let the best college and euro players just go to the teams they want in the first place? If I was an owner I'd be ticked if my money was just being used to be a developmental team for the Lakers or Celtics.

Buy hey life sucks being an NBA star and getting paid $10M per year. Whaah I can't play where I want. It's so unfair.

Making any comparison to real world jobs is unrealistic.

 

[Milhouse]

Great post. And, as you said in an earlier post, WF fans & the rest of the basketball fans have very different views about what a great guy Chris Paul is. And, once more, there is not a doubt in the world that if Paul had decided to make his short college layover at Duke or UNC, the people on this board who now think he is the Cat's Meow would be savaging him fiercely. It's really quite comical.

so you are saying that if chris paul played at duke we wouldn't like him as much as we do since he played at wake forest? well holy hell, i learned something today!!

 

[RJKarl]

Only is a skewed world do people have such animus and jealousy of others who are among the best in the world at what they do.

83, if you were making big bucks working for a company in Podunk and wanted to leave Podunk, you'd be able to and you'd think that's fine.

Or you could be working at XYZ Corp in NY in business F. Ehy shouldn't you be able to work in business F for ABC corp for big bucks in the same city or wherever you choose?

Why are pro sports any different?

Anyone who is "savaging" Chris for doing this is jealous and idiotic as anyone who has such an opportunity would do it themselves.

 

[buckets]

The problem is that the NBA model create a continuous group of haves and have nots.

Why don't we just get rid of the draft and let the best college and euro players just go to the teams they want in the first place? If I was an owner I'd be ticked if my money was just being used to be a developmental team for the Lakers or Celtics.

Buy hey life sucks being an NBA star and getting paid $10M per year. Whaah I can't play where I want. It's so unfair.

Making any comparison to real world jobs is unrealistic.

soo... how do you explain the success of the mavericks and spurs? both are "middle market" teams. or the rise of the thunder? teams are proven you can build an NBA winner with a good owner and management, the bigger market teams can just do it easier.

 

[Strickland33]

soo... how do you explain the success of the mavericks and spurs? both are "middle market" teams. or the rise of the thunder? teams are proven you can build an NBA winner with a good owner and management, the bigger market teams can just do it easier.

Market is a relative term. If we're talking markets in the sense of metro-areas/regions, then here are the biggest cities in the US in terms of population. That being said, it's tough because Milwaukee/Chicago, in my mind is technically as similar of a market as Fresno/Long Beach/Bakersfield and LA OR Newark and NYC-Metro, but who's counting?

2 mil +:
New York (Knicks/Nets) 8.2 mil
Toronto (Raptors) 5.5 mil
LA (Lakers/Clippers) 3.8 mil
Chicago (Bulls) 2.7 mil
Houston (Rockets) 2.1 mil
----------------------
1 mil - 2 mil:
Dallas-Fort Worth (Mavericks) 1.9 mil
Philadelphia (76ers) 1.5 mil
Phoenix (Suns) 1.5 mil
San Antonio (Spurs) 1.3 mil
SF/Oakland (Warriors) 1.2 mil

So, if you're defining a big market by access to at least 1 million people, then 12 of 30 (40%) of NBA teams are big market.

Here are the cities between 500k-1 mil:
Indianapolis (Pacers) 821k
Charlotte (Bobcats) 730k
Detroit (Pistons) 713k
Minny/SP (Wolves) 670k
Memphis (Grizzlies) 647k
Boston (Celtics) 617k (though this a HUGE regional market)
Washingon (Wizards) 602k
Denver (Nuggets) 600k
Milwaukee (Bucks) 594k
Portland (Blazers) 584k
Oklahoma City (Thunder) 580k
---------------------------------------------------------------

So, 23 of 30 (77%) NBA teams are in markets about 500k, with big regional markets. I don't think anybody believes that, with the exception of possibly OKC, these are small markets.

The 23% that aren't?

Sacramento (Kings) 467k
Atlanta (Hawks) 420k
Miami (Heat) 400k (ironic, huh.)
Cleveland (Cavs) 397k
New Orleans (Hornets) 344k
Orlando (Magic)* 238k
Salt Lake City (Jazz)* 186k (though, Utah -pop. 2.7 mil- is the market)

So, when we speak about teams like the Spurs vs. Heat being small market, for instance, you have to wonder what exactly that means...


*Winston-Salem's pop. is 229k

 

[WakeDogg]

ESPN saying a new trade proposal has been submitted for approval. i feel like this is where we find out completely if it's a go or not b/c i don't see it being rehashed again after this if it doesn't go through. also can't imagine if Stern approves it there is any amount of whining the other owners can do to get him to change his mind. (then again, who freaking knows any more?)

couple of other points i've seen over this thread that i want to address:

1. can we stop comparing the NFL and NBA and trying to use the transitive property. "well the roster structure is such and such or the revenues are split among owners..." they're completely apples and oranges. the NFL plays once a week for 16 weeks a year. it's a national phenomenon. maybe the NBA would be different if they had a 16 game schedule that only played on Saturdays. there's a reason they're two completely different sports and, as mentioned, the NBA has been plenty successful at times.

2. as Simmons accurately points out (it is one of his better articles in some time and reveals his true fanhood is to the NBA, not just the Celtics) - the NBA has THRIVED off its big market teams. he made the Wilt comparison and there's plenty of other precedent before Lebron and company took their talents to South Beach. it's how it has always been, and how it always will (and should be)

3. i feel stupid even responding to this one, but whoever still said that Kobe "paid his way out of a rape charge" is an idiot. i don't negrep on here but i should. you can call him an asshole and egocentric or whatever, but stop with the rape thing. it was a bullshit charge that didn't even go to trial b/c it was such bullshit. serious false accusations like this have no place in tarnishing a person's legacy.

4. fantasy football is sweet

5. my final comment on this already too long and disjointed post is that David Stern is such a dipshit. there is no doubt that by nixing this trade he weakened the very team he was trying to 'protect.' Dan Gilbert is a even bigger POS. i admit i'm a diehard Lakers fan (born and raised here) and i love CP3 more than anything, so this was a dream come true for me, but i'm really more saddened for the NBA. small teams still get their shots with intelligent drafting and roster moves, and when it doesn't happen with that superstar, he moves. it's what always has happened and it makes for entertaining NBA games/series. i enjoyed watching the Heat lose to the Mavs... did you?

 

[KidA23]

ESPN saying a new trade proposal has been submitted for approval. i feel like this is where we find out completely if it's a go or not b/c i don't see it being rehashed again after this if it doesn't go through. also can't imagine if Stern approves it there is any amount of whining the other owners can do to get him to change his mind. (then again, who freaking knows any more?)

couple of other points i've seen over this thread that i want to address:

1. can we stop comparing the NFL and NBA and trying to use the transitive property. "well the roster structure is such and such or the revenues are split among owners..." they're completely apples and oranges. the NFL plays once a week for 16 weeks a year. it's a national phenomenon. maybe the NBA would be different if they had a 16 game schedule that only played on Saturdays. there's a reason they're two completely different sports and, as mentioned, the NBA has been plenty successful at times.

2. as Simmons accurately points out (it is one of his better articles in some time and reveals his true fanhood is to the NBA, not just the Celtics) - the NBA has THRIVED off its big market teams. he made the Wilt comparison and there's plenty of other precedent before Lebron and company took their talents to South Beach. it's how it has always been, and how it always will (and should be)

3. i feel stupid even responding to this one, but whoever still said that Kobe "paid his way out of a rape charge" is an idiot. i don't negrep on here but i should. you can call him an asshole and egocentric or whatever, but stop with the rape thing. it was a bullshit charge that didn't even go to trial b/c it was such bullshit. serious false accusations like this have no place in tarnishing a person's legacy.

4. fantasy football is sweet

5. my final comment on this already too long and disjointed post is that David Stern is such a dipshit. there is no doubt that by nixing this trade he weakened the very team he was trying to 'protect.' Dan Gilbert is a even bigger POS. i admit i'm a diehard Lakers fan (born and raised here) and i love CP3 more than anything, so this was a dream come true for me, but i'm really more saddened for the NBA. small teams still get their shots with intelligent drafting and roster moves, and when it doesn't happen with that superstar, he moves. it's what always has happened and it makes for entertaining NBA games/series. i enjoyed watching the Heat lose to the Mavs... did you?

Agree with all this. Aside from the sheer audacity and incredulity of a league commissioner literally blocking a trade between 2 franchises at the behest of other owners, I love the logic of stepping and preventing a franchise that no one wants to buy from getting 4 young and productive assets for CP3 and, in doing so, forcing the Hornets to watch CP3 walk away for nothing this summer. Real smart.

PS No way Stern blocks the resubmitted deal. The public outcry and backlash from the first "blockage" tainted the league far more than the lockout ever did or could have. Stern knows he needs to capitulate here and get the discussion back to the start of the season, the 5 Xmas day games, all the new/bubbling storylines, etc.

 

[Les Grossman]

The problem is that the NBA model create a continuous group of haves and have nots.

Why don't we just get rid of the draft and let the best college and euro players just go to the teams they want in the first place? If I was an owner I'd be ticked if my money was just being used to be a developmental team for the Lakers or Celtics.

Buy hey life sucks being an NBA star and getting paid $10M per year. Whaah I can't play where I want. It's so unfair.

Making any comparison to real world jobs is unrealistic.

I dont get it. Are you against the concept of free agency? Paul is doing the Hornets a favor here. He's being upfront that he's not going to sign with them at year end so they can get something for him now. That was one of the reasons why people were so mad at LeBron. He left the Cavs high and dry. Yes, NBA stars get paid 10 million+ a year. But, you're talking about individuals who are at the very top of their profession. I'm sure whatever you do...you dont do it as well as Paul or LeBron or Carmelo. They put in their time with their respective teams, and if they want to move they should have that right.

 

[Strickland33]

Agree with all this. Aside from the sheer audacity and incredulity of a league commissioner literally blocking a trade between 2 franchises at the behest of other owners, I love the logic of stepping and preventing a franchise that no one wants to buy from getting 4 young and productive assets for CP3 and, in doing so, forcing the Hornets to watch CP3 walk away for nothing this summer. Real smart.

PS No way Stern blocks the resubmitted deal. The public outcry and backlash from the first "blockage" tainted the league far more than the lockout ever did or could have. Stern knows he needs to capitulate here and get the discussion back to the start of the season, the 5 Xmas day games, all the new/bubbling storylines, etc.

Am I the only one hoping that the Cavs lose consistently until Gilbert sells the team?

What a scumbag... (not even taking into consideration the fact that he made his billions peddling subprime loans in places such as his native Detroit and Cleveland)

 

[KidA23]

Yea, Gilbert is the fucking worst. The Comic Sans e-mails only add to the unintentional comedy from that clown.

 

[lefty]

PS No way Stern blocks the resubmitted deal. The public outcry and backlash from the first "blockage" tainted the league far more than the lockout ever did or could have. Stern knows he needs to capitulate here and get the discussion back to the start of the season, the 5 Xmas day games, all the new/bubbling storylines, etc.

I agree. There's no way he blocks this again, unless he's gone full retard

 

[dartsndeacs]

I am sure Chris does love NO/W-S, but that doesn't mean he wants to spend his career there. As a pro athlete, he wants to win and make good money doing it. In New Orleans, he only has a shot at one of those and it isn't winning. Not to mention, the Hornets aren't staying in New Orleans.

They just signed a 10 year lease they can't get out of.

 

[dartsndeacs]

5. my final comment on this already too long and disjointed post is that David Stern is such a dipshit. there is no doubt that by nixing this trade he weakened the very team he was trying to 'protect.'

Don't call him a dipshit. He's a lawyer and an officer in the National Baksetball Association. And you're temporarily banned you son of a bitch.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

Market is a relative term. If we're talking markets in the sense of metro-areas/regions, then here are the biggest cities in the US in terms of population. That being said, it's tough because Milwaukee/Chicago, in my mind is technically as similar of a market as Fresno/Long Beach/Bakersfield and LA OR Newark and NYC-Metro, but who's counting?

2 mil +:
New York (Knicks/Nets) 8.2 mil
Toronto (Raptors) 5.5 mil
LA (Lakers/Clippers) 3.8 mil
Chicago (Bulls) 2.7 mil
Houston (Rockets) 2.1 mil
----------------------
1 mil - 2 mil:
Dallas-Fort Worth (Mavericks) 1.9 mil
Philadelphia (76ers) 1.5 mil
Phoenix (Suns) 1.5 mil
San Antonio (Spurs) 1.3 mil
SF/Oakland (Warriors) 1.2 mil

So, if you're defining a big market by access to at least 1 million people, then 12 of 30 (40%) of NBA teams are big market.

Here are the cities between 500k-1 mil:
Indianapolis (Pacers) 821k
Charlotte (Bobcats) 730k
Detroit (Pistons) 713k
Minny/SP (Wolves) 670k
Memphis (Grizzlies) 647k
Boston (Celtics) 617k (though this a HUGE regional market)
Washingon (Wizards) 602k
Denver (Nuggets) 600k
Milwaukee (Bucks) 594k
Portland (Blazers) 584k
Oklahoma City (Thunder) 580k
---------------------------------------------------------------

So, 23 of 30 (77%) NBA teams are in markets about 500k, with big regional markets. I don't think anybody believes that, with the exception of possibly OKC, these are small markets.

The 23% that aren't?

Sacramento (Kings) 467k
Atlanta (Hawks) 420k
Miami (Heat) 400k (ironic, huh.)
Cleveland (Cavs) 397k
New Orleans (Hornets) 344k
Orlando (Magic)* 238k
Salt Lake City (Jazz)* 186k (though, Utah -pop. 2.7 mil- is the market)

So, when we speak about teams like the Spurs vs. Heat being small market, for instance, you have to wonder what exactly that means...


*Winston-Salem's pop. is 229k

You are using numbers that suggest that the Charlotte market is bigger than the Miami and Atlanta Markets, and you are also suggesting that Winston is bigger than Orlando? Your numbers are completely wrong and you are a moron.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

http://www.arbitron.com/home/mm001050.asp

 

[Strickland33]

You are using numbers that suggest that the Charlotte market is bigger than the Miami and Atlanta Markets, and you are also suggesting that Winston is bigger than Orlando? Your numbers are completely wrong and you are a moron.

Market is a relative term, but that's fine. You're right, I conflated market with population. That being said, I was pointing out city size, as a means of questioning the NBA's logic about markets.

Improving that remedial reading comprehension would serve you well, though, as long as we're talking about morons.

I never said Winston was bigger than Orlando. Actually, though, it's not far off. If we're talking cities, then Winston covers more square miles with just under 9,000 less people than Orlando.

 

[ibleedgoldandblack]

the last 7 finals MVP's have spent their whole career on the same team (kobe x 2, dirk, duncan, parker, pierce, wade).

Not true. Kobe and Dirk were a Hornet and Buck respectively for dozens of minutes before being traded to the Lakers and Milwaukee.

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

Market is a relative term, but that's fine. You're right, I conflated market with population. That being said, I was pointing out city size, as a means of questioning the NBA's logic about markets.

Improving that remedial reading comprehension would serve you well, though, as long as we're talking about morons.

I never said Winston was bigger than Orlando. Actually, though, it's not far off. If we're talking cities, then Winston covers more square miles with just under 9,000 less people than Orlando.

And city size is a terrible measure because it is heavily influenced by the political organization of the city/county in which the team plays.

Jacksonville's population is larger than Atlanta's.