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Deacs Seton Hall Game Thread

deacvision7 said:
You both understand that "pulling" for Wake =/= not bitching about the awfulness we see, right?


I don't doubt that you guys are cheering for Wake and doing what YOU think is in WFU's best interest. Not for a second. I disagree with you, but I don't think you are trying to hurt Wake Forest basketball.


I'm just curious what makes you two get so magnanimous in thinking that anybody that suggests this coach will lead Wake Forest to failure at worst, and mediocrity at best, is somehow not a fan of Wake Forest.

It is like you have created this bubble in your minds where criticizing the coach for being mediocre AT BEST = not wanting Wake to succeed.


NEWS FLASH: We just don't think Wake will truly "succeed" until Jeff [Redacted] is no longer the head coach of our basketball program.


Stop climbing up on your weakly supported, and not even trusted, soapbox already. Fuck sake...

You guys are just as guilty of this fan divide as the "BuzzOUT!"ers, Jeff [Redacted], and Ron Wellman himself
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:panda:

I think it's comical how much you think your voice matters to the AD. I'm saying that for the sake of the rest of us, I'd appreciate not having to sift through the same tried-and-true (and oftentimes untrue) Bzz'out rhetoric on literally every post on here. But, if that sentiment isn't shared, then so be it...
 
There's a difference, I think, and if there's not, then I'm happy to say that I'm wrong.

I'm not talking about criticizing Bzz. Criticize him. If you look at my posts, then you'll see I do it a lot.

The difference is that we've heard all of the Bzz'out stuff before and it's literally in every post whether it's warranted or not.
-He hasn't won anywhere and when he did it was with somebody else's team.
-He can't recruit and any recruiting gains are the result of some luck/coincidence.
-He can't coach because he hasn't won anywhere and his system sucks
-He throws his players under the bus
-His teams suck at rebounding because his system sucks
-He makes too many excuses
-His constant invocation of culture is laughable and untrue
-Pulling my support (money, tickets, showing up, watching games) bc Bzz sucks

But you're right, as well, we've heard all of the defenses, too, and I'm against those, as well.

If you look, the post I was responding to was the following:

Originally Posted by thedeacfan View Post
Sorry, but LOWF is exactly what your version of reality is. Accepting Buzz is another way of saying "Why bother, we can't compete with Duke and Carolina anyway." Your attitude is why we have someone like Buzz in the first place. I guess my goals for the program are a little higher than yours and Ron's.

It wasn't that long ago that we beat Duke and Carolina on our home court just a few days apart. And I used to feel that we had a chance to win everytime we played, no matter who or where. That feeling is long gone and will not be back with Buzz. If you don't believe me, just ask the other 13,000 people who are not showing up at the home games.
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What I was saying is more that, at some point, we just need to accept that we're going to be bad this year. Literally, the mention of basketball brings out this absurd rehashing of the same tired points (which was the aim of the "you" that DV7 interpreted to be at him in the "AD doesn't care what you have to say" comment).

It would be one thing to critique specifics, but simply to say: Bzz sucks because (any of the aforementioned reasons) is just tiresome at this point. All of the talk about unwiped a**, socks, fashion, etc. are not my issue.

It's not that the criticism I care about. (If you notice, I actually wrote that I agreed with the OP.) It's more just about wishing folks would accept where we're at right now and not just say: UNC is going to kill us, so I'm never going to a game ever again.

What's the point?

We're not good this year not only because of Bzz, but also because we're just not good. To accept one, at some point, should be to accept both, but for some reason it's just not happening.

So, Nikita is about as good of a player as Bzz is a coach. How about that?
 
Yeah, I deleted my posts before you responded cause I didn't want to get into it and I've tended to enjoy your posts. :)
 
Strickland33 said:
There's a difference, I think, and if there's not, then I'm happy to say that I'm wrong.

I'm not talking about criticizing Bzz. Criticize him. If you look at my posts, then you'll see I do it a lot.

The difference is that we've heard all of the Bzz'out stuff before and it's literally in every post whether it's warranted or not.
-He hasn't won anywhere and when he did it was with somebody else's team.
-He can't recruit and any recruiting gains are the result of some luck/coincidence.
-He can't coach because he hasn't won anywhere and his system sucks
-He throws his players under the bus
-His teams suck at rebounding because his system sucks
-He makes too many excuses
-His constant invocation of culture is laughable and untrue
-Pulling my support (money, tickets, showing up, watching games) bc Bzz sucks

But you're right, as well, we've heard all of the defenses, too, and I'm against those, as well.

If you look, the post I was responding to was the following:



What I was saying is more that, at some point, we just need to accept that we're going to be bad this year. Literally, the mention of basketball brings out this absurd rehashing of the same tired points (which was the aim of the "you" that DV7 interpreted to be at him in the "AD doesn't care what you have to say" comment).

It would be one thing to critique specifics, but simply to say: Bzz sucks because (any of the aforementioned reasons) is just tiresome at this point. All of the talk about unwiped a**, socks, fashion, etc. are not my issue.

It's not that the criticism I care about. (If you notice, I actually wrote that I agreed with the OP.) It's more just about wishing folks would accept where we're at right now and not just say: UNC is going to kill us, so I'm never going to a game ever again.

What's the point?

We're not good this year not only because of Bzz, but also because we're just not good. To accept one, at some point, should be to accept both, but for some reason it's just not happening.

So, Nikita is about as good of a player as Bzz is a coach. How about that?
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I agree with you to a point. Where you and I differ is your "this year" language. If there was any indication that this might be over after this year, I'd see your points. But the reason people are unhappy, or at least why I am unhappy, is there is no end in sight. I will admit, buzz fell into a shitty situation. But, he isn't the answer, he will never be the answer, and he is really just a waste of everyones time. So, that is why people bitch so much and say the same retarded stuff over and over. There is nothing else to do (like watch wake win a game or play a decent game) so people resort to just talking and attempting to solve a problem that, truth be told they can't solve (and they know this). Also, when people realize that they have no way of actually fixing this problem associated with something that they take way to seriously, they just get more and more pissed off and project more and more anger on Bz, Wellman and the like. [Redacted] is a crazy easy target and does nothing to attempt to alter his status as such, so it isn't that shocking to me that people go after him every game because it is kind of the new hobby, since the old hobby (enjoying the games) is a bit hard to do.
 
richis711 said:
I agree with you to a point. Where you and I differ is your "this year" language. If there was any indication that this might be over after this year, I'd see your points. But the reason people are unhappy, or at least why I am unhappy, is there is no end in sight. I will admit, buzz fell into a shitty situation. But, he isn't the answer, he will never be the answer, and he is really just a waste of everyones time. So, that is why people bitch so much and say the same retarded stuff over and over. There is nothing else to do (like watch wake win a game or play a decent game) so people resort to just talking and attempting to solve a problem that, truth be told they can't solve (and they know this). Also, when people realize that they have no way of actually fixing this problem associated with something that they take way to seriously, they just get more and more pissed off and project more and more anger on Bz, Wellman and the like. [Redacted] is a crazy easy target and does nothing to attempt to alter his status as such, so it isn't that shocking to me that people go after him every game because it is kind of the new hobby, since the old hobby (enjoying the games) is a bit hard to do.
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Wow! This is almost exactly what I was going to post in response to Strick. The crazy Bzzz out stuff is just a symptom of people stuck in an impossible situation that they can not fix and there is not hope of getting out. Again, the sooner he is gone, the sooner we can have hope.
 
DeacMan said:
With each passing week my apathy about this program grows. If diehard nutjobs who post here don't care, it doesn't say anything good about our program. Bzz must go.
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Wacked logic. I'm disappointed in you. Apathy is due to the fact that NIT is our ceiling this year with CBI the realistic goal. Next year, expectations will be NCAA and passion will return. If we underachieve for a third year in a row, then you will have a point.

Right now, your point sucks big hairy ass.

And right now, we are not underachieving this year. Far from it, though we are only overachieving by a very small margin - not enough to take pressure off Bzd heading into the conference schedule
 
jaybone said:
Wacked logic. I'm disappointed in you. Apathy is due to the fact that NIT is our ceiling this year with CBI the realistic goal. Next year, expectations will be NCAA and passion will return. If we underachieve for a third year in a row, then you will have a point.

Right now, your point sucks big hairy ass.

And right now, we are not underachieving this year. Far from it, though we are only overachieving by a very small margin - not enough to take pressure off Bzd heading into the conference schedule
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i don't see the over achieving you are speaking of. i also don't know how we can add a bunch of rookies to the team next year (some recruits will likely pan out some won't) and "expect" to go to the ncaa's. that is far from a sure thing.
 
He thinks getting to the CBI is a "realistic" goal for this season. This is the same guy that doesn't think we will finish with a .500 record or better.

I'm not quite sure how those two statements go together.
 
Yeah, you don't have to have a winning record to get to the CBI. Know your shit, man.

We are 6-4. Most predicted 8 to 12 wins. We are playing together as a team and despite lacking size or depth we have played competitively in all but our game with Arizona State. I think we are overachieving.

We just on the road to an average team, but a Big East team none the less with experience that knows how to play tough physical games. They relied on two seniors and one other guy. they are probably a bubble team, but they were at home playing with a lot of confidence. Had a chance to blow us out of the building but we made a few adjustments and made a game of it.

Can't quite figure out what has changed from a week or two ago.

You can't fucking redraw the goal line here. Nobody thought we had a chance for post season this year. Many here thought we would be worse than last year after losing Clark, Terrell, etc... We are better than last year, obviously.

If we are better next year, then Bzd still has a job. If we are better the year after that, ditto. This is not rocket science.
 
jaybone said:
=
If we are better next year, then Bzd still has a job. If we are better the year after that, ditto. This is not rocket science.
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So that's why he set the bar so low last year. In three years we can win 5 ACC games and he'll still be 'improving.' Can't wait.
 
I would imagine he expects 3+ wins this year, 7 or 8 the following year and a winning ACC record the year after that. I would guess if he doesn't hit those numbers, he will be in the hot seat with the only person that really matters
 
jaybone said:
I would imagine he expects 3+ wins this year, 7 or 8 the following year and a winning ACC record the year after that. I would guess if he doesn't hit those numbers, he will be in the hot seat with the only person that really matters
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With our schedule, I think 5 is a fair expectation for this team.
 
Was at the game and here's my take....

First and foremost, we have no 'go-to' guy right now. Harris is the closest but too often he seems content to 'watch' on several posessions as opposed to going and getting the ball.

McKie....Perhaps someone can explain why he spent the majority of the 1st half standing stationary in a corner watching the game ??? And then in the 2nd half, he suddenly looks terrific....starts moving / looking for the ball and starts slicing down the lane for buckets and/or free throws ???

Desrosiers....certainly willing and trying but just doesn't have any upper-body strength and is a tad slow. Maybe in 2 years he might have a Vissers-type Senior season.

Chennault....not a great ball-handler, certainly trying but seems to me he's limited as a PG when our offense ( at least on this night ) is near totally geared to perimeter ball movement. He doesn't seem able/confortable in driving the lane for dishes out for jumpers.

Mescheriakov....IMO, he's a tweener between a PF and a SF. Again he hustles and gives effort but just not blessed with a whole lot of talent on either end of the court.

Fisher....I think there's some hope here. I like his 'court awareness' via his passing on the fly. He just has to move more to enhance his shooting opportunities. Oh, and it would be nice sometime soon for us to set some high pics for him !

Fields....I think there's some hope here as well. Kid did a nice eye-contact alley-oop to Walker in the 2nd half. Obviously has speed, good dribbler and enjoys the PG role and plays good man-to-mab D. Downside right now is he apparantly has no urge or is bashful/reluctant to shoot the ball.

Walker....all things considered, thought he did o.k.. Was obviously very nervous first time off the bench and only made/had 1 defensive lapse that I could see. Had the nice alley-oop bucket, grabbed a couple 'bounds and I think had a block and caused SHU to alter 2 shots. Frankly, he did as well in limited time as Desrosiers did in extended time on the court. BTW, was a bit disappointed to see Battle clearly give him a tongue lashing for the 1 obvious defensive lapse. There'll be plenty of time for that down the road if/when needed....NOT NOW the kid's first time out. A little bitty 'atta boy' would have perhaps been better at this juncture.

In sum, we have nobody with size and strength who can box-out and rebound, we have no depth and basically 2 guys to generate any offense. In other words, we are very limited in what we can do as a team over the course of a game.
 
"McKie....Perhaps someone can explain why he spent the majority of the 1st half standing stationary in a corner watching the game ??? And then in the 2nd half, he suddenly looks terrific....starts moving / looking for the ball and starts slicing down the lane for buckets and/or free throws ???"

The first half the zone offense was trying get open looks either on skip passes or penetration. I guess Travis is now considered a 3 pt. threat so he was hanging out on the perimeter. He's clearly our best post player and not that great of a shooter so it has been puzzling why we're using him in that role. Against HPU, I was hoping we'd post him up more and get him the rock but it only happened a couple of times.

I think Buzz recognized that the only way to get consistent scoring, and possibly foul Pope out was to get it to Travis in the second half. With a couple of more made layups and decent officiating getting him to the line it would've been effective. The Deacs had some home cooking laid on them by the stripes and it made it tough to narrow the gap.

Note: This post offers no comment on Buzz or opinion on buzzin/buzzout. Lobo is not mentioned either.
 
Strickland33 said:
With our schedule, I think 5 is a fair expectation for this team.
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I think 5 is likely our ceiling, but yeah, I am sure the team is shooting for respect, respectability and 5 wins in the conference will probably do that.

And if he wins 5 this year, or every 4, the expectation from the staff to the team to Wellman would be 7+ next year considering who we are adding.

Anybody who is 100% sure that Bzd is not the answer is an idiot, or rather, is reacting purely emotionally. I am certainly not 100% sure that Bzd IS the answer. I know he can coach but it seems to me he is at best an ackward mentor.

I said we'll know more this year and we do. We are playing relatively consistently. Other than shooting and a couple of players who need to be really on their game to be Div 1 caliber players, we have played very consistently. We have only had a few minutes here and there where lack of offense has resulted in a breakdown on defense for a few possessions in a row.

All that is on the staff. Next year, the coach is going to have a collection of ACC talent, though almost all of it will be young. They will need to meet the expectations of that then. Again, it is not fucking rocket science.

Last year, we did not meet expectations, thus the blow back. This year, we are, and recruiting has met expectations as well. Still, for half of you, blow back continues without acknowledging even reluctantly the progress made.

It sucks. I don't feel bad for Bzd. I feel bad for the team though. They deserve better.
 
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