Rep. George Cleveland, R-Onslow Doesn't Believe in Extreme Poverty in NC

[BillBrasky]

Historical facts are pie-in-the-sky stoner rhetoric that lead to societies in decline? Strong argument there, killa. You are really doing well.

Please point me to the period in American history where a surplus of jobs and opportunity were rejected by the American populace in favor of government dependence. thanks

You're living in it.

In the past the government wasn't there to prop you up. So you took whatever job you could to get by. That isn't happening anymore.

 

[RJKarl]

The really sad part is that you've completely bought into the fairy tale of womb to tomb big government benevolence.

I never said that.. What's sad is your inane, incredibly stupid and closely held position that that I or anyone else wants people to be dependent on government or that the vast and overwhelming percentage of the people getting government aid want to stay on government assistance.

 

[BillBrasky]

Brasky may be the biggest proponent of big government on this board.

In some instances, yes. I want our government to act as a computer. We need to take the emotion out of it and make cold, calculated decisions which will lead to improving our nation. I'm not the RWinger that RJ and his cronies always attempt to make me seem.

It's not all black and white (metaphor, not race related you victims-in-waiting) man. In fact it never is.

 

[DemonDeac3D]

Republicans and Democrats are equally removed from the reality of this situation at the government level. One thing politicians have in common almost universally is personal wealth. No matter your intentions (passing policy about protecting your own wealth vs. passing policy in an attempt to distribute it) its ignorant to say the system we have can't be improved on. It's even more ignorant to take any suggestion of inadequacy as an affront to your morals and start a yelling match. SC is absolutely right in that the current system breeds dependence, generation after generation of it. I grew up in rural South Carolina and understand exactly what he's describing, which I am sure is applicable across most of lower class America. The intentions of the system are noble, help insure those who can't afford anything have the monetary support to supply the basic needs. The problem is it can be a handcuff. I know several small business owners who have had people turn down or quit jobs because it was going to end their social security checks. I know people who have HAD MORE KIDS just so they could increase the amount their check was for every month. This is what he's talking about. You don't throw out the old system, but you have to re-evaluate what it means to provide for those in need, and simply writing checks so you can say you did something and feel better about yourself isn't the best answer.

 

[DreamOnDemOn]

The way to glory:

1. Force me to pay for babymomma's birth control, 'cause babymomma doesn't have a job but wants to fuck

2. Force me to pay for babymomma's maternity care 'cause babymomma forgot birthcontrol but did not forget to fuck

3. Force me to pay for the food, clothing and education of babymomma's babies 'cause babymomma can't be bothered with any of this while babymomma is fucking

4. Show babymomma's babies how to fuck and repeat steps 1 - 3. Wait for poverty to decrease.

 

[HeavyPetter]

 

[ArlingtonDeac]

I'm still trying to figure out why millions of people come to this country looking for work yearly, yet there aren't enough jobs.

Oh what's that, they're coming here to work the jobs that Americans don't want? Why's that? Because our system of dependency and entitlement has led to a portion of society unwilling to work to make end's meet.

No, it's because our consumer and services economy demands prices be so low that the wages paid for many jobs are not sufficient for first world standards, so we import third world workers willing to work below the line.

 

[BillBrasky]

No, it's because our consumer and services economy demands prices be so low that the wages paid for many jobs are not sufficient for first world standards, so we import third world workers willing to work below the line.

True. And that is why we have to crack down on empolyers paying people below an acceptable minimum wage.

 

[Wrangor]

Well kumbaya! Maybe it's the structure of our government programs that needs to be looked at. Almost 50 years since the LBJ's Great Society and poverty is as big if not bigger problem. Most programs do very little to help raise that single mother and her 3 kids out of the ghetto. It's time to re-examine what we're doing and try to do things that actually work, produce results, and breaks the cycle of poverty.

The perfect solution is a government that stays out of welfare and a population that takes care of its own. Unfortunately we don't take care of our own so the government is forced to get involved. If people loved their neighbor as much as they loved themselves the government would not need to be involved. Our flawed government is simply a reminder that we are flawed selfish people that don't really care about anyone but ourselves. So the idea that we can fix government is a farce. We can't, the poverty initiatives of government will always be broken, will not do the job they were intended to do, and will serve the poor less effectively than individuals can. Since our population is not willing to take up the mantle and make efforts to break the poverty cycle, our government will continue to do it poorly. I don't see it changing, because that is not the American way. 'I am gonna get mine' is the motto, not 'Pro Humanitate'.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Since our population is not willing to take up the mantle and make efforts to break the poverty cycle, our government will continue to do it poorly. I don't see it changing, because that is not the American way. 'I am gonna get mine' is the motto, not 'Pro Humanitate'.

Does this "population" include chairmen and ceo's who make massive employee cutbacks and send jobs overseas just to raise their stock prices minimally?

 

[WakeandBake]

I'm still trying to figure out why millions of people come to this country looking for work yearly, yet there aren't enough jobs.

Oh what's that, they're coming here to work the jobs that Americans don't want? Why's that? Because our system of dependency and entitlement has led to a portion of society unwilling to work to make end's meet.

more demagoguing of the poor and "the help is the problem" mental gymnastics FTW!

 

[Wrangor]

Does this "population" include chairmen and ceo's who make massive employee cutbacks and send jobs overseas just to raise their stock prices minimally?

They would be the worst offenders. Chairman that structure their entire corporation around maximizing profit instead of including it as merely a part of doing business. Businesses should make money, but their only focus should not be how much money they can make. I have no problem with massive profits from a well run company that is providing a good product. I have a massive problem when businesses have no concern for their employees, their hometown, the implications of their decisions on how they do business.

We have forgotten what made American business great. It wasn't massive corporate profits. It was creating a good product, that helped the community, and enriched all of those involved in the making and distributing of the product. The sea rose, and all the boats, from the dinghy to the yacht rose together. In our current business culture, the yacht owner siphons the water from the surrounding lakes, and fills his own private lake while the rest of the boats flounder in dry river beds.

It is a counter intuitive strategy and the seeds that are being sown right now will bear fruit in the coming generations. We wonder why kids seem to be more entitled? Look at who we look up to...the people with the most are often the people who are willing to run over the most people in order to 'get theirs'. Our children will be no different unless we teach them a different gospel.

 

[WakeandBake]

You're living in it.

In the past the government wasn't there to prop you up. So you took whatever job you could to get by. That isn't happening anymore.

there is a surplus of jobs and opportunity right now?

 

[WFFaithful]

Really. There are some disgusting people on this board. They say they want answers to the problem....but they really don't want answers to the problem. They would rather just bitch about the problem.

The exploding income inequality that this nation has seen in the last 30 years or so is also directly related to the problem. We can't increase the pay of our workers, but we can continue to explode the pay of those at the top. In the 1960s, the CEO of a Fortune 500 company made 24x what the average worker in the company made. Today, that number in in the hundreds.

One of the growing reasons is the decline in the local business in favor of national conglomerates.

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

They would be the worst offenders. Chairman that structure their entire corporation around maximizing profit instead of including it as merely a part of doing business. Businesses should make money, but their only focus should not be how much money they can make. I have no problem with massive profits from a well run company that is providing a good product. I have a massive problem when businesses have no concern for their employees, their hometown, the implications of their decisions on how they do business.

We have forgotten what made American business great. It wasn't massive corporate profits. It was creating a good product, that helped the community, and enriched all of those involved in the making and distributing of the product. The sea rose, and all the boats, from the dinghy to the yacht rose together. In our current business culture, the yacht owner siphons the water from the surrounding lakes, and fills his own private lake while the rest of the boats flounder in dry river beds.

It is a counter intuitive strategy and the seeds that are being sown right now will bear fruit in the coming generations. We wonder why kids seem to be more entitled? Look at who we look up to...the people with the most are often the people who are willing to run over the most people in order to 'get theirs'. Our children will be no different unless we teach them a different gospel.

Have you been reading the book club thread? I agree 100% that profit is an outdated measurement of performance when it's possible to make money by destroying present and/or future stocks of human, social, and environmental capital.

 

[legacyfan]

They would be the worst offenders. Chairman that structure their entire corporation around maximizing profit instead of including it as merely a part of doing business. Businesses should make money, but their only focus should not be how much money they can make. I have no problem with massive profits from a well run company that is providing a good product. I have a massive problem when businesses have no concern for their employees, their hometown, the implications of their decisions on how they do business.

We have forgotten what made American business great. It wasn't massive corporate profits. It was creating a good product, that helped the community, and enriched all of those involved in the making and distributing of the product. The sea rose, and all the boats, from the dinghy to the yacht rose together. In our current business culture, the yacht owner siphons the water from the surrounding lakes, and fills his own private lake while the rest of the boats flounder in dry river beds.

It is a counter intuitive strategy and the seeds that are being sown right now will bear fruit in the coming generations. We wonder why kids seem to be more entitled? Look at who we look up to...the people with the most are often the people who are willing to run over the most people in order to 'get theirs'. Our children will be no different unless we teach them a different gospel.

Just wanted to say I agreed with Wrangor... don't get to say that too often, and this was twice in the same thread.

 

[PhDeac]

stop having babies- even easier without contraception
get an education- only for snobs and if you want to be like Obama
get a job- easiest thing on the list considering that there is a plethora of openings for the uneducated

Great post. Republicans talk about crap like "get a high school diploma" but the first thing they cut when the budget is tight is education while demonizing teachers for good measure. Then the private sector decides that the best way to make profits isn't to grow the pie but get rid of workers hired to make the pie.

 

[deacdiggler]

They would be the worst offenders. Chairman that structure their entire corporation around maximizing profit instead of including it as merely a part of doing business. Businesses should make money, but their only focus should not be how much money they can make. I have no problem with massive profits from a well run company that is providing a good product. I have a massive problem when businesses have no concern for their employees, their hometown, the implications of their decisions on how they do business.

We have forgotten what made American business great. It wasn't massive corporate profits. It was creating a good product, that helped the community, and enriched all of those involved in the making and distributing of the product. The sea rose, and all the boats, from the dinghy to the yacht rose together. In our current business culture, the yacht owner siphons the water from the surrounding lakes, and fills his own private lake while the rest of the boats flounder in dry river beds.

It is a counter intuitive strategy and the seeds that are being sown right now will bear fruit in the coming generations. We wonder why kids seem to be more entitled? Look at who we look up to...the people with the most are often the people who are willing to run over the most people in order to 'get theirs'. Our children will be no different unless we teach them a different gospel.

I agree with a lot of this, but at the same time, I wonder how many people would truly invest in a company that said in their prospectus: "we are not going to try to maximize our profits, but by investing in us you can feel good that your investment dollars are supporting American jobs. Rather than earning the 10% annualized return that you might get in other equities, we hope you'll settle for 4%. "

The way to solve this is to bring additional value for that US investment. People will pay a premium for a better product, but generally not all that much just to support an inefficient cost structure.

 

[Wrangor]

The reality is that at every step in the food chain of our society, from the wealthy executive, to the single mom, we are focused on only ourselves. For executives that means slashing jobs to boost bottom line, for a single mom that might mean continuing to have out of wedlock sex and having more babies. Selfishness is rampant and isn't going away. There is no political solution to this, that is the reality of it. We will continue to fight the same battles until our society unravels. That is the bare truth of it. It sucks, but we do our best for as long as we can....but no society is timeless. Look at our history. Every great civilization implodes from very common characteristics. American is not immune. Our country was great when men and women sacrificed for the common good. Now the only good that matters is our own good. Republicans don't have the answer, and neither do the Democrats. This is why I fit into neither party.

We need a change of heart as a society, not a change in political theory. Yes we can still choose to do the best we can with the choices we are forced to make, but in the end almost every choice is merely deciding between the lesser of two poor consequences. Do we give welfare? Yes, but the consequences are that you foster dependency. Do we withhold welfare and attempt to instill work ethic and responsibility? Yes, but the consequences are that little children go hungry and single moms that are there because they have a loser boyfriend can't provide for their family.

Hows that for a bummer of a post?

 

[CHDeac]

I'm in the camp that we as a nation need to tackle poverty and debt as our top priorities. It amazes me that this issue is so polarizing (its the poor's fault, its the rich top 1%s fault) on this board.

What is even more amazing is that given the 17% of our nation lives below the poverty line, we will offer free (tax payer subsidized) contraceptives etc. as part of the ACA. Someone in a fam of 4 making less than $90k will get a govt subsidy for insurance for a "rich" insurance plan. We as a nation are subsidizing a very rich health benefit for someone solidly middle class. Meanwhile, the % in poverty continues to grow, which will further drain the coffers of our nation. Thats unacceptable to me. But the poor dont vote ad middle class women do so well played by the administration.

That ACA money can be redirected to help the poor. Two fixes I would focus on are

1. An improved child care / after school system which would allow the poor easier access to interviews, jobs, etc. and not take a inordinate amount of their take home pay for child care. I work closely with the Burmse/Karin community in Chapel Hill and this is a tremendous issue. Fortunately, this is a very connected community which provides easy access to child care (it takes a village). Its distressing to see new immigrants who don't have this access struggle (i.e. the Burmese and the karin don't like each other and this dislike extends itself 15,000 miles to chapel hill. So the Burmese struggle getting a start).

2. We need to improve the health status of the poor. Medicaid needs a complete overhaul and while I'm far from an expert, a better managed medicaid sustem which incents behaviors and outcomes not only improves health but access to employment. We can also use these financial incentives to help increase $ for the poor in general. Think of a poor person on Medicaid with diabetes. Imagine a cash reward program that incents adherence.


***Required BFKFan Disclaimer: I work for the health insurance industry. I am posting this from my home using my mac while watching Dora the Explorer.