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Penn State Penalties: $60mm, 4 year bowl ban, scholarship reduction, vacated wins

Good job by the NCAA. They put a fitting penalty on a school that tried to hide a series of dastardly deeds to keep their football program at the forefront. The loss of the wins is appropriate since they would not have gotten near that many if all this junk had come out years ago and their recruiting had suffered. The monetary penalty may actually not be enough but at least it is going to help the abused children. Losing all these schollies will get them "abused" in the Big 10 themselves while letting them play a full schedule and not hurt their opponents with a hole in the schedule.
 
As explained in this ESPN blog, the most daunting aspect of the sanctions is the severe limitation on the number of scholarships. Penn State will have to play four seasons in a row with only 65 scholarship players, i.e., about the same number that FCS (I-AA) schools have (63 in FCS). In addition, I think the the quality of many those players will probably be lower than what PSU has had in the past, perhaps more like lower level FBS (I-A) players. Nevertheless, Penn State will be playing a full Big 10 schedule. We know that a good FCS team can upset a good FBS team on any given Saturday, but I think we might now see how well an FCS-like team (Penn State) fares playing four whole seasons against an FBS/BCS Conference schedule of teams.

Scholarship penalties could crush PSU

By Adam Rittenberg | ESPN.com

INDIANAPOLIS -- Forget about the money. The revenue that Penn State must forfeit both now and in the future as a result of NCAA penalties handed down Monday won’t cripple the football program.

Scholarship reductions might. Especially scholarship reductions coupled with extremely liberal transfer rules for current players and incoming recruits.

Because there was a lot of confusion about the scholarship component earlier Monday, let’s review it again:

  1. Penn State can offer only 15 scholarships per year, 10 fewer than the maximum allowed, beginning with the 2013 recruiting class and continuing through the 2014, 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes. The team can resume offering 25 scholarships per year with the 2017 class. The scholarship reductions don’t impact the 19-man recruiting class Penn State signed in February.
  2. Penn State will have to play with just 65 scholarship players, 20 fewer than the maximum allowed for FBS programs, beginning with the 2014 season and also in the 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons.
  3. The 2018 calendar year will be the first time Penn State can both offer 25 scholarships and play with 85 scholarship players.

A reasonable conclusion: Penn State football might not be back to normal in terms of its roster until the 2020 season or so.

The NCAA and Big Ten also are making it very easy for current Penn State players to transfer. Players who signed national letters of intent with Penn State in February may be released from those letters and allowed to go elsewhere without penalty. If players pledged to Penn State decide in the next year that they want to compete elsewhere, they shouldn’t face much, if any, resistance.

And if Penn State players decide they don’t want to play football but remain in school, their scholarships will be honored until they complete their degrees.

“We recognize the immediate consequences here have an impact on these students, who didn’t have anything directly to do with the transgressions at Penn State,” said Kevin Lennon, the NCAA’s vice president of academic and membership affairs. “So we’re trying to provide the best relief possible.”

Here are some of the specifics:

Penn State can’t place any restrictions on where a player can go. “We would simply ask that the student approach the institution and say, ‘I am interested in transferring,’ ” Lennon said. “And then the school that wants to recruit that student would notify Penn State that they have interest in recruiting that student. So there’s some relief there.”

Both current Penn State players and incoming recruits will be able to transfer and be eligible immediately. Although a transfer within the Big Ten could result in some penalties, league commissioner Jim Delany said Monday that the Big Ten’s presidents and chancellors are leaning toward allowing such transfers with no penalties.

The NCAA will re-examine its rules about official and unofficial visits for Penn State recruits. “Should a student want to go back to a campus they had considered during the recruiting process,” Lennon said, “we’ll set aside those limitations for that particular group to make sure they have the most informed and best choice to help them academically and athletically.”

If a Penn State player wishes to transfer to a team that already is at its 85-man scholarship limit, the NCAA will engage the school about ways to possibly make things work. “It’s hard to say we’re going to have a blanket policy to say one school can go over [the limit],” Lennon said. “Perhaps there’s opportunities to look at, if you had more this year, if you went above 25, perhaps you could reduce it the following year. Those would be choices the school would make to balance the competitive issue.”

It’s unknown whether Penn State players could transfer to schools such as Ohio State and USC that are already operating at a reduced scholarship cap because of their own NCAA violations. “We’ve not addressed that issue at all at this point,” Lennon said.

Will the NCAA’s scholarship sanctions prevent Penn State’s ability to compete in the coming years?

“We think you can certainly field a team with these numbers,” Lennon said. “And part of this is a penalty. The institution needs to do the best they can within that construct to field the best team they can.”

That’s the daunting task now facing new Penn State coach Bill O’Brien and his staff.
 
Wonder how long it will take PSU football to recover? 10 yrs.? 15 yrs?

Have to feel for ordinary fans who love PSU football and yet are appalled by the utter failure of their heroes. They will not have much to get excited about for some while.
 
Good job by the NCAA. They put a fitting penalty on a school that tried to hide a series of dastardly deeds to keep their football program at the forefront. The loss of the wins is appropriate since they would not have gotten near that many if all this junk had come out years ago and their recruiting had suffered. The monetary penalty may actually not be enough but at least it is going to help the abused children. Losing all these schollies will get them "abused" in the Big 10 themselves while letting them play a full schedule and not hurt their opponents with a hole in the schedule.


It seemed clear that the joke of an organization had overstepped it's bounds, but I needed confirmation. Thanks reff. Your support of the NCAA in this matter is the only confirmation I need to know they effed up again.
 
It seemed clear that the joke of an organization had overstepped it's bounds, but I needed confirmation. Thanks reff. Your support of the NCAA in this matter is the only confirmation I need to know they effed up again.

We have an apologist?


:popcorn:
 
It seemed clear that the joke of an organization had overstepped it's bounds, but I needed confirmation. Thanks reff. Your support of the NCAA in this matter is the only confirmation I need to know they effed up again.

pedo-bear-seal-of-approval.thumbnail.png
 
Wonder how long it will take PSU football to recover? 10 yrs.? 15 yrs?

Have to feel for ordinary fans who love PSU football and yet are appalled by the utter failure of their heroes. They will not have much to get excited about for some while.

As someone who was raised a Penn State fan before attending Wake, I can tell you it sucks. My grandmother grew up in State College. My grandparents both attended PSU. They met there. They got married after my grandmother graduated and were married for over 70 years...50+ of that as season ticket holders. Since before I cane remember I got Penn State gear for Christmas and whatnot. They would be absolutely devastated to see what has become of the program and Joe Paterno's reputation. That said, it's not as if any of it is wrong. The whole thing just makes me sick.
 
Good job by the NCAA. They put a fitting penalty on a school that tried to hide a series of dastardly deeds to keep their football program at the forefront. The loss of the wins is appropriate since they would not have gotten near that many if all this junk had come out years ago and their recruiting had suffered. The monetary penalty may actually not be enough but at least it is going to help the abused children. Losing all these schollies will get them "abused" in the Big 10 themselves while letting them play a full schedule and not hurt their opponents with a hole in the schedule.

I can't agree with this. It was so much more than just the football program, although it certainly played a major role. It was the whole university. It was way bigger than football...not to say the what was done was even remotely OK, because it wasn't.
 
Wonder how long it will take PSU football to recover? 10 yrs.? 15 yrs?

Have to feel for ordinary fans who love PSU football and yet are appalled by the utter failure of their heroes. They will not have much to get excited about for some while.

I feel bad for the players too....a lot of these guys probably grew up wanting to wear the blue and white and to play for Paterno...now they're dream is ruined and will more than likely head elsewhere.

Everyone not involved in this whole ordeal but affected by it have lost big portion of their lives...hope they can all move on from this to bigger and better things.
 
Alright so lets argue the importance of having 65 vs 85 scholarship players.

I'm (obviously) no expert but looking at stats over the past few seasons, Its realistic to estimate that a div-1 team expects to play between 35 and 40 players in a given game.

So if schools are utilizing their full allotment of scholarships w/85 players, nearly half of those 85 players are not expected to play in any given game. Injuries, Redshirts, etc.

It seems to me that PSU could field a fairly competitive (albeit injury prone) squad if a few things fall into place:

BoB convinces the current core to stick around for a year
BoB is able to recruit using his NFL experience to downplay the postseason sanctions, etc.
Core of 65 practices well together & avoids injuries at all costs

This all changes as more decommits roll in, which I'm sure they wil
 
& I did a poor job of explaining what I want to see some debate on:

How much is each scholarship worth in term of performance on the field?

If PSU can keep the guys they've got... how would you expect PSU(65 players) @ UVA(85 players) to turn out? What would be your guess if both teams were at full-strength? Does the timing of the game (2nd game of the season) make a big difference?
 
& I did a poor job of explaining what I want to see some debate on:

How much is each scholarship worth in term of performance on the field?

If PSU can keep the guys they've got... how would you expect PSU(65 players) @ UVA(85 players) to turn out? What would be your guess if both teams were at full-strength? Does the timing of the game (2nd game of the season) make a big difference?

the problem isn't depth per se. you could trim the bottom 20 players off any top level team and there wouldn't be a huge drop-off. however, those 20 players make up your recruiting margin of error. each of those 20 was brought in because someone thought they'd contribute. now, you have to be about perfect in your evaluations of players because pretty soon, some of those recruiting whiffs are going to be forced into action.
 
& I did a poor job of explaining what I want to see some debate on:

How much is each scholarship worth in term of performance on the field?

If PSU can keep the guys they've got... how would you expect PSU(65 players) @ UVA(85 players) to turn out? What would be your guess if both teams were at full-strength? Does the timing of the game (2nd game of the season) make a big difference?

This is how i'm looking at it vt, feel free to disagree or argue a different point as I don't think anyone will really know until the end of next season and the end of the 2017 season at how bad this really will hurt them.

First, i'd break down what a normal roster will look like (obviously just a hypothetical):

4 QBs
5 RB's
8 WR's
3 TE's
5 OT's
5 OG's
2 C's
5 DE's
5 DT's
8 LB's
8 Corners
5 Safties
1 kicker
1 punter

That puts them exactly at 65 I believe and is a pretty accurate breakdown of how I'd fill out a team. So you are at least 2 deep at teach position and usually have a reserve or two at each position that is considered 3rd string or less. That would be fine if it's like a video game but a lineup like this allows very little if any subbing. It also will make PSU rely on bringing in freshman that will not get the luxury of redshirting and basically have to be ready to play right away. And they will have to basically never miss on a player evaluation of anyone they take a commitment from. And they actually have to recruit with the moniker of a school that enabled the rape of little boys. There is no way in the world that each and every one of those things falls in line. I'm thinking a good comparison will be slightly better than Marshall after the terrible plane crash they had. Freshmen will have to play and play a lot early. And that's just not a recipe for success in todays college football. So yea, I think PSU if sooooo f'd.
 
This is how i'm looking at it vt, feel free to disagree or argue a different point as I don't think anyone will really know until the end of next season and the end of the 2017 season at how bad this really will hurt them.

So yea, I think PSU if sooooo f'd.


The way I'm reading it, the only way they're not totally screwed is if BoB turns out to be the best recruiter/salesman in the world of college football (especially towards his current players and already-pending recruits).

If they can survive years 1 & 2 with some shred of competitiveness... It would fast-forward their rebuilding stage by about a decade. If BoB can look a kid straight in the face 2 years from now and pitch that they'll be a good football team (without post-season bans) for the future recruits' 3rd and 4th years, this won't be as apocalyptic for PSU FB as most (including myself) are predicting.
 
The decomitments have commenced:

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d83kj?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=recruiting

"It was something we decided before (the NCAA's announcement) because my family saw it coming," Douglas said. "We prepared ourselves for it, and today was just the icing on the cake. I love Penn State to death, but I have to do what's best for me and I'm going to look elsewhere."

So has the recruitment of their players, with Lane Kiffin leading the way. I'm sure Urban Meyer, Paul Chryst and Brady Hoke aren't far behind, to name a few.
 
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