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NBA offseason thread

Have to agree with Hollinger. Very frustrating day. Between Stern nixing our trade last year, and now this, it's starting to feel like a conspiracy. And I hate conspiracy theories. The Rockets board is full of some good ones, though ("the agents are clearly running the show").
 
The Lakers will easily be over $100M in 13-14 if they keep Howard. Buss better start winning more at poker so he can pay his luxury tax.
 
John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
Based on what I've been told Houston pretty clearly had a better offer -- including a guaranteed lotto pick. Frustrating day for Rox.

Have to agree with Hollinger. Very frustrating day. Between Stern nixing our trade last year, and now this, it's starting to feel like a conspiracy. And I hate conspiracy theories. The Rockets board is full of some good ones, though ("the agents are clearly running the show").

I'm not going to lie, though. On draft night, nobody knew what the heck Morey was doing. With three first rounders, you should NEVER start picking for other teams without a guarantee that the other teams are going to trade with you. There were many opportunities to grab starting-caliber positions of need and the Rockets instead amassed more same-skill-set power forwards than any team in history.

As much as I feel yours and Hollinger's pain on this and agree that the NBA intentionally pulled the plug on the last trade: your GM has a lot of work and growing up to do before y'all are ready for prime time.
 
The Lakers will easily be over $100M in 13-14 if they keep Howard. Buss better start winning more at poker so he can pay his luxury tax.

Aren't the Buss's rolling in dough, anyway? I see this team's best case as multiple championships and worst case as 2004 repeated. I can imagine that they'll more than make the cost of the luxury tax by selling out Staples for the foreseeable future, by adding a megastar (Dwight) and one of the NBA's more marketable stars (Nash), and the $$$ that accompany winning championships.
 
Love love love the 6ers.....so pumped that we have a legit big man, DAMN it's been a long time.

Agreed. This trade should elevate y'all into legit contenders. That being said, now the weight is exclusively on Jrue's shoulders.
 
Man, reflecting on this Hennigan absolutely bricked. Tough situation for a 1st time 30-year-old GM but geez... At least Stern will probably bail them out with the #1 pick in 2013.

Twitter says that Martins executed the trade, a decision that was supported in part to protect Hennigan's reputation in a situation that he didn't create.
 
I'm not going to lie, though. On draft night, nobody knew what the heck Morey was doing. With three first rounders, you should NEVER start picking for other teams without a guarantee that the other teams are going to trade with you. There were many opportunities to grab starting-caliber positions of need and the Rockets instead amassed more same-skill-set power forwards than any team in history.

As much as I feel yours and Hollinger's pain on this and agree that the NBA intentionally pulled the plug on the last trade: your GM has a lot of work and growing up to do before y'all are ready for prime time.

I generally think the Morey draft problem has more to do with Morey's "value" philosophy than any attempt by him to pick for other teams. Lamb and Jones especially were great "value" at their respected draft positions, and the summer league (if it's worth anything) has exhibited that. The Royce White pick is the only headscratcher, to me, but he's an intriguing guy that could develop with time.

In general, I disagree that the problem with the Rockets offer was that Orlando didn't want any of Lamb/Motiejunas/Parsons/White/Patterson. It's just implausible that Orlando wouldn't want at least some of them as opposed to Harkless or Vucevic. And if I'm reading Woj's tweets right, the Rockets deal was structured around us offering cap space and future picks. Lots of future picks. Better picks than Orlando ended up getting.
 
I generally think the Morey draft problem has more to do with Morey's "value" philosophy than any attempt by him to pick for other teams. Lamb and Jones especially were great "value" at their respected draft positions, and the summer league (if it's worth anything) has exhibited that. The Royce White pick is the only headscratcher, to me, but he's an intriguing guy that could develop with time.

In general, I disagree that the problem with the Rockets offer was that Orlando didn't want any of Lamb/Motiejunas/Parsons/White/Patterson. It's just implausible that Orlando wouldn't want at least some of them as opposed to Harkless or Vucevic. And if I'm reading Woj's tweets right, the Rockets deal was structured around us offering cap space and future picks. Lots of future picks. Better picks than Orlando ended up getting.

They can't get much more cap space than they will get from this trade. By 14/15, they will be down to $13M+draft pick salaries.

What I don't get is why they didn't take Pau and then trade him next year or the following year. He has big value.
 
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Oh well, that's just brilliant. Why the hell did you hire the guy then?

I think it was for Hennigan's own good. This was going to be a lose-lose situation for him and Vaughn and so they let the vet take the fall for it... I think it's actually not a bad strategy.

Supposedly, Otis Smith was one of the more incompetent GMs in the league and in addition to shedding Van Gundy and now Howard, that whole organization was in dire need of cleaning house.

The trade isn't favorable for Orlando, but we forget that Dwight was going to walk for nothing next year and, because of bad blood on both sides, I doubt they could have orchestrated a LeBron or Bosh-esque sign-and-trade that could have returned some value.

Moe Harkless in this new organization is an underrated acquisition. Dude was a top-10 talent and, unlike the newly departed Earl Clark, may actually get enough attention to achieve his potential.

Afflalo is one of the league's best perimeter defenders and up-and-coming offensive players, stuck as a fourth option on a team filled with gunners. He'll undoubtedly look better.

Vucevic is a great complementary player to the guys they drafted this year and their existing PFs (Nicholson, Harper, and O'Quinn) and is an underrated young center in his class (14.1 ppg and 12.3 rpg in 40 minutes pace adjusted).

Harrington is what he is, but he's also a guy that will get buckets on a team without a guy who can get buckets. I hear he's guaranteed just $7.3 million of the $21 (or something like that), so he's a nice option to have when you're going to suck beyond belief.

The picks are picks (who knows where they'll be) and they can be packaged to move up. Future drafts will have better international stash options, so I don't think they're as ill-placed or minimally valued as many suggest.
 
What I don't get is why they didn't take Pau and then trade him next year or the following year. He has big value.

If Pau has such big value, then why has he been such an underrated commodity throughout the past two or three years of trade speculation? I agree with you that he's a great player, but I just don't see the value (and neither do GMs).
 
Your info on Harrington is completely wrong according to Yahoo and Hoops Hype. Each has him with 3 years remaining on a full five year mid-level exception contract.

Houston placed value on him. The reasonthe Lakers want to get rid of him is his $19M salary will cost them close to $30M with luxury tax. The Magic were fools not to take him.
 
I generally think the Morey draft problem has more to do with Morey's "value" philosophy than any attempt by him to pick for other teams. Lamb and Jones especially were great "value" at their respected draft positions, and the summer league (if it's worth anything) has exhibited that. The Royce White pick is the only headscratcher, to me, but he's an intriguing guy that could develop with time.

In general, I disagree that the problem with the Rockets offer was that Orlando didn't want any of Lamb/Motiejunas/Parsons/White/Patterson. It's just implausible that Orlando wouldn't want at least some of them as opposed to Harkless or Vucevic. And if I'm reading Woj's tweets right, the Rockets deal was structured around us offering cap space and future picks. Lots of future picks. Better picks than Orlando ended up getting.

I mean, the value philosophy is legitimate, but there's no way to sugarcoat the fact that he really blew this draft. It would be better if he didn't already pick Patterson and Morris in the lottery, alongside of Donatas. A roster of 11 PFs doesn't win and a GM must either unload those players for greater value or help produce wins. Morey will likely not do either before he is inevitably fired.

Value or no value, he responded to massive holes in the roster by picking three players who do the same thing as his recent picks (while waiving the best player of said skill set on the roster), picking a wing who will replicate his best player's skill set (Lamb wasn't a replacement either: both Lamb AND Martin were rumored to be trade chips), AND instead of picking a PG or C (both huge positions of need with sure-things available when they drafted), they really gambled, possibly overpaid two guys who are hardly sure things to be the anchors of the team.
 
Your info on Harrington is completely wrong according to Yahoo and Hoops Hype. Each has him with 3 years remaining on a full five year mid-level exception contract.

Houston placed value on him. The reasonthe Lakers want to get rid of him is his $19M salary will cost them close to $30M with luxury tax. The Magic were fools not to take him.

Yeah. Not a secret that Minnesota absolutely covets Gasol. Could have probably got Williams, Ridnour and a pick for Gasol. Don't have a clue why you don't take him.
 
They could get Williams, the T'wovles starting center and a pick for Gasol.
 
Your info on Harrington is completely wrong according to Yahoo and Hoops Hype. Each has him with 3 years remaining on a full five year mid-level exception contract.

Houston placed value on him. The reasonthe Lakers want to get rid of him is his $19M salary will cost them close to $30M with luxury tax. The Magic were fools not to take him.

Houston placed value on everybody. Pau's name has been floated more than just that one time and NOBODY has wanted him outside of Morey, who is proving himself to be the Billy King of 6'9 face-up PFs.

I don't have time to go through and show you all of the reports (you can search Al Harrington on twitter just as easily as I can), but his contract (3 years/$21 million remaining) is only 50% guaranteed for the last two years and the word on the street is that the Magic will buy him out.

ETA: Harrington is owed $6.7 million next year and the remaining $15 million on his contract is only 50% guaranteed)
 
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Yeah. Not a secret that Minnesota absolutely covets Gasol. Could have probably got Williams, Ridnour and a pick for Gasol. Don't have a clue why you don't take him.

Again, if Gasol is so valuable, then why hasn't he been traded? Mitch could run circles around Kahn and Morey if he wanted to if there was enough value coming back to make it worthwhile...
 
Basketball-reference says 50% guaranteed. Hoops Hype says all....

Houston would love to have Pau and traded for him. The T'wolves have made offers for him. Clearly he has value.

The Orlando GM made a stupid move not taking him and trading him.
 
Basketball-reference says 50% guaranteed. Hoops Hype says all....

Houston would love to have Pau and traded for him. The T'wolves have made offers for him. Clearly he has value.

The Orlando GM made a stupid move not taking him and trading him.

HoopsHype isn't the end-all-be-all. They don't generally take any partial guarantees into account in their charts. That's because they don't have access to contracts, just raw totals that they get from agent contacts and spotrac (who gets the info from the same source).

Hoopsworld is generally a better source for contract minutae. So is Sham Sports (UK-based bball guru). Those guys are absolute sticklers for accurate contract data.

The figures that I gave on Harrington are indeed the correct ones, which was one of the primary reasons that they accepted him so freely. That's significant cap relief going into the summers of 2013 and 2014. They're under 20-million committed, if my math serves me right, and knowing Hennigan's pedigree, they should be able to do some damage in free agency and the draft.
 
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I mean, the value philosophy is legitimate, but there's no way to sugarcoat the fact that he really blew this draft. It would be better if he didn't already pick Patterson and Morris in the lottery, alongside of Donatas. A roster of 11 PFs doesn't win and a GM must either unload those players for greater value or help produce wins. Morey will likely not do either before he is inevitably fired.

Value or no value, he responded to massive holes in the roster by picking three players who do the same thing as his recent picks (while waiving the best player of said skill set on the roster), picking a wing who will replicate his best player's skill set (Lamb wasn't a replacement either: both Lamb AND Martin were rumored to be trade chips), AND instead of picking a PG or C (both huge positions of need with sure-things available when they drafted), they really gambled, possibly overpaid two guys who are hardly sure things to be the anchors of the team.

Ehh, I'm just not seeing it. The moves all made much more sense with an eye toward Dwight. In their current form, they look a little silly, but a guy like Omer Asik has been (according to most analysts) paid about correctly for what he should bring in defense and rebounding. Lin is, perhaps, an overpay but he's also a shrewd business move (the Rockets have begun to receive advertising revenue from Taiwanese companies already-- see http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...pany-follows-rockets-guard-jeremy-lin-houston).

I don't understand why Lamb can't be a replacement AND a trade chip. That, to me, was the purpose of the Lamb/Jones/White picks. Pick guys that you're high on, and use them as trade bait, but should nothing work out you're left with a bunch of young talent that you like and a load a cap space.

The Scola waive is the one thing Rockets fans are still down on, but that was clearly to try to induce the Magic into a trade. They took a gamble, and they lost for bizarre reasons. It happens.

Morey may inevitably be fired--he has, after all, been the GM in Houston for quite some time--but I hardly think he's unskilled at his job or an immature GM. He's a little too coldly analytical sometimes (Chuck Hayes and Carl Landry are plus players, I swear!!!), but I think he "gets" the league and knows what it takes to win. Despite the Yao/T-Mac injury saga, he's put together several years of winning teams. This year will be his first shitty team, but it's a shitty team that's exceptionally well positioned for the future. And, to Morey's credit, he's always been a fantastic drafter. Marcus Morris is the only glaring recent pick that hasn't panned out, and in that same draft he still picked up Parsons and Motiejunas.

I'm defs a Morey fanboy. If you go over to the Houston boards, you'll see that public opinion is about split 50/50, but I'm defs on the Morey side. The "other" side, to me, just screams "let's a GM that can land a big player!!! and then we'll be awesome!!" Not going to happen by simply sweet talking a guy into playing for you.
 
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