• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

How's That Obama Recovery Feeling?

Johnny Utah said:
No, tax breaks simply allow them to keep what is more of theirs in the first place. The government is not giving the corporation anything, it is just taking less from the corporation. Corporate welfare would be something like a bank or GM bailout whereby the government is giving the corporation money over and above what the corporation earned on its own.
Click to expand...

Corporate welfare is giving one business something other businesses don't get.
 
Johnny Utah said:
No, tax breaks simply allow them to keep what is more of theirs in the first place. The government is not giving the corporation anything, it is just taking less from the corporation. Corporate welfare would be something like a bank or GM bailout whereby the government is giving the corporation money over and above what the corporation earned on its own.
Click to expand...

Would you apply the same standards to individuals?
 
Johnny Utah said:
No, tax breaks simply allow them to keep what is more of theirs in the first place. The government is not giving the corporation anything, it is just taking less from the corporation. Corporate welfare would be something like a bank or GM bailout whereby the government is giving the corporation money over and above what the corporation earned on its own.
Click to expand...

"Keep more of what is theirs" gets bandied about constantly around here - which sounds good but is kinda disingenuous, don't you think? You have to have a country to do business in. Business "gets" a lot from government/America that creates a good environment within which to do business. That costs money. I appreciate the sentiment of what you are saying, but I think it is a little more complicated than that.
 
The biggest impediment to a faster recovery is the same one that got us into this mess: banks. Until they start lending again, businesses will only be able to expand through organic growth which is a major uphill climb.
 
Marietta Deac said:
The biggest impediment to a faster recovery is the same one that got us into this mess: banks. Until they start lending again, businesses will only be able to expand through organic growth which is a major uphill climb.
Click to expand...

this. see post #59
 
New claims for jobless benefits surged last week to their highest level since last summer, providing another sign of the economy's struggle to create jobs.

Separately, U.S. productivity slowed in the first quarter as the economic recovery stumbled and labor costs started to rise again.

Idled workers increased new filings for unemployment benefits by 43,000 to a seasonally adjusted 474,000 for the week ended April 30, the Labor Department said Thursday in its weekly jobless claims report.


Chachacha...
 
All the sturm and drang of crashing commodities is drowning out an underlying truth: More Americans are getting jobs and prices at the pump are going lower. This is bullish for stocks, according to Jim Paulsen, who joined Breakout from Wells Capital Management in Minneapolis.

While conceding that a 9 percent unemployment rate is hardly cause for celebration, the fact that the economy is adding jobs should be the focus for investors. Paulsen sees activity picking up in corporate America after the residual shock of last decade's meltdown in the financial markets. On the margin, which is where traders obsessively focus, the trend remains better for those watching the numbers from month to month. With April showing an increase of 244k in non-Farm payrolls, and revisions for prior months in the upward direction, the trend is still better, if only tenuously.

If you're looking for someone to to throw a wet blanket of negativity on the burgeoning fire of growth under equities, you should ask someone other than Paulsen. The investment strategist says the threat of the Fed raising rates is bullish, the logic being that this would be Bernanke and Co's first expression of confidence in the sustainable growth of the American economy in some time.

The flip side of crisis is opportunity. To Jim Paulsen, that means use any commodity selling spilling into stocks as an opportunity to buy. This seems counter-intuitive, but stocks are taking Jim's side of the argument, at least on a relative basis, as a flight out of the formerly "safe" precious metals seemingly buoys equities.

LINK

this is fun
 
WakeandBake said:
All the sturm and drang of crashing commodities is drowning out an underlying truth: More Americans are getting jobs and prices at the pump are going lower. This is bullish for stocks, according to Jim Paulsen, who joined Breakout from Wells Capital Management in Minneapolis.
Click to expand...

:confused:
 
ONW said:
Would you apply the same standards to individuals?
Click to expand...

Of course. If you take deductions on your tax return (whether standard, kids, medical, whatever), do you consider yourself to be receiving welfare? No, you are just keeping more of your money than you otherwise would if you chose not to take the deduction. If you get a welfare check from the State over and above any other income you might have, then are you receiving welfare? I believe so.
 
WakeandBake said:
"Keep more of what is theirs" gets bandied about constantly around here - which sounds good but is kinda disingenuous, don't you think? You have to have a country to do business in. Business "gets" a lot from government/America that creates a good environment within which to do business. That costs money. I appreciate the sentiment of what you are saying, but I think it is a little more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

Your position is noted, but I think irrelevant given the government's spending inefficiencies and waste. If we had an efficient government and could track each person's (corporation's) benefit on a per-tax-dollar basis, then I think your position would be valid once you found the margin point. However, in the current situation where I personally feel we get far less than $0.50 of any measurable value per $1.00 of government spending combined with the huge number of citizens who don't pay any taxes at all other than some point-of-purchase taxes, I don't think you can equate expenditures with benefits with a straight face because they are so disjointed.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Your position is noted, but I think irrelevant given the government's spending inefficiencies and waste. If we had an efficient government and could track each person's (corporation's) benefit on a per-tax-dollar basis, then I think your position would be valid once you found the margin point. However, in the current situation where I personally feel we get far less than $0.50 of any measurable value per $1.00 of government spending combined with the huge number of citizens who don't pay any taxes at all other than some point-of-purchase taxes, I don't think you can equate expenditures with benefits with a straight face because they are so disjointed.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but as noted you cannot track that either. You feel we get less than 0.50 for every tax dollar, but until you can be certain how can you just call for tax relief out-of-hand? I'm not calling for a tax increase, and I am not adverse to examining the tax code wrt American businesses. You are singling out corporate tax relief as a magic tonic for all that ails our economy, and I'm not convinced.

Terming it "keeping more of what is theirs" and as others have said "the government forcibly taking money from its rightful owner" etc etc is hyperbolic and narrow.
 
Last edited:
WakeandBake said:
:noidea: The time stamp on that story is 2 hours ago. Paulsen is much smarter and more informed than I am, so perhaps he knows something....
Click to expand...

I did read that oil prices were going down today but will that translate to gas prices going down? Some of the drop in price is associated to a drop in demand as people are being more thoughtful about how much they drive.

The conspiracy theorist in me still thinks the commodities markets are the issue.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Name two businesses that pay the exact same amounts and get the benefit of the exact same things.
Click to expand...

Oil companies get tax benefits your ISP doesn't. Oil companies get writeoffs specific to their industry that aren't offered in kind to all industries.
 
RJKarl said:
Oil companies get tax benefits your ISP doesn't. Oil companies get writeoffs specific to their industry that aren't offered in kind to all industries.
Click to expand...

and they get the world's greatest military whenever they need them to protect their foreign capital and personnel, and war with indigenous people who live on top of the oil. :D
 
Marietta Deac said:
I did read that oil prices were going down today but will that translate to gas prices going down? Some of the drop in price is associated to a drop in demand as people are being more thoughtful about how much they drive.

The conspiracy theorist in me still thinks the commodities markets are the issue.
Click to expand...

Gas stations are always in a hurry to raise the price, but I doubt anyone's ever worked up a sweat to lower the prices.

I think the commodities market is to blame as well. But, it's going to take some prolonged pain at the pump ($3.50ish) to get us off the habit.
 
Banks need to lend more.

Businesses need to hire people.

The people who blame Obama for these two things not happening would flip their lids if he tried to force them to happen.
 
RJKarl said:
Oil companies get tax benefits your ISP doesn't. Oil companies get writeoffs specific to their industry that aren't offered in kind to all industries.
Click to expand...

Paging AnswerTheQuestionDeac. You responded to the exact opposite of what I posed: "Name two businesses that pay the exact same amounts and get the benefit of the exact same things." You cited two businesses that get completely different things.

You stated that corporate welfare is giving one business something that other businesses don't get. I'm asking you to name two businesses that pay the exact same amounts and get the benefit of the exact same things. You can't, because there are none, so under your definition, every corporation receives corporate welfare.
 
Your request has no relevance to the original question. Your original was that it wasn't welfare. I showed how it is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top