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How's That Obama Recovery Feeling?

Bake, if Jesus ran as a Dem, 84 wouldn't vote for him.

RJ, you don't have a clue about me, so I wish you would stop making claims about what I would and wouldn't do. I have voted for and contributed to local Democrat candidates numerous times, including state senators and representatives in Georgia.

When it comes to Obama, almost every economic move he has made is in opposition to my education and beliefs.

Baked, the stimulus bill was nothing but a big union payoff. If there were some tangible results for that $800 billion (improved infrastructure,etc.) that could be measured, I might feel differently. And on cue, RJ is claiming a cause and effect between it and the economy that can't be proven. Like I said in a previous post, Obamabots are going to take credit for anything they can and ignore the bad news.

Cash for clunkers was an unmitigated disaster that did nothing but accelerate car purchases that were already going to happen.

QE I and II has done nothing but prop up a stock market that should be much lower. Without QE III we will see the market fall to where it should have been all along. In the meantime, the value of the $US has been destroyed. In 27 months he has increased our national debt by $3.6 trillion. And what do we have to show for it? Inflation (that the Fed continues to lie about), no jobs (1 in 7 Americans are now using food stamps) and a double-dipping housing market.

I'm not sure if there are enough politicians on either side of the aisle to propose the tough medicine needed to get our national debt under control. But to claim that Obama has been anything but an unmitigated disaster with respect to our economy is just blind (along with deaf and dumb) devotion.
 
RJ, you don't have a clue about me, so I wish you would stop making claims about what I would and wouldn't do. I have voted for and contributed to local Democrat candidates numerous times, including state senators and representatives in Georgia.

When it comes to Obama, almost every economic move he has made is in opposition to my education and beliefs.

Baked, the stimulus bill was nothing but a big union payoff. If there were some tangible results for that $800 billion (improved infrastructure,etc.) that could be measured, I might feel differently. And on cue, RJ is claiming a cause and effect between it and the economy that can't be proven. Like I said in a previous post, Obamabots are going to take credit for anything they can and ignore the bad news.

Cash for clunkers was an unmitigated disaster that did nothing but accelerate car purchases that were already going to happen.

QE I and II has done nothing but prop up a stock market that should be much lower. Without QE III we will see the market fall to where it should have been all along. In the meantime, the value of the $US has been destroyed. In 27 months he has increased our national debt by $3.6 trillion. And what do we have to show for it? Inflation (that the Fed continues to lie about), no jobs (1 in 7 Americans are now using food stamps) and a double-dipping housing market.

I'm not sure if there are enough politicians on either side of the aisle to propose the tough medicine needed to get our national debt under control. But to claim that Obama has been anything but an unmitigated disaster with respect to our economy is just blind (along with deaf and dumb) devotion.

Please answer my question.

Whoever, Obama or McCain, should they have:

1) done nothing
2) done_____________

I'm not trying to be an asshole or a douche this time. I am interested in what he should have done, in your opinion. I understand your beef with what he did do. But I want you to now tell us what he should have done to meet with your approval.
 
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You haven't said ANYTHING good about Obama. Your hatred prevcents you from giving hmi credit for getting OBL.

You talk about $800B as pork the reality is the GOP considered only about $8-12B as pork. That's what they showed as all the pork.

1/3 of the $797B is in the form of TAX CUTS. Is that pork to you?

The policies that you never had a problem with led us to having over 700,000 jobs losses per month. We are now 800-900,000 jobs per month better off, but to you this truth is immaterial.
The frist dollars from that "pork package" hit the economy in September or October of 2009. The economy is definitevely better than it was then.

It's not where it should be, but it is MUCH better than before it happened.

You also oppposed the takeover of GM. It just had one of the most successful IPOs in the history of the world.

That Obama policy not only save over 1.5M jobs they have created 60-80,000 NEW jobs, but to you it was wrong.
 
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Bake, here's a point of reference RE:84. Vurtually every RWer on the board has posted on one or more of the OBL is dead threads giving Obama credit for killing him. 84 can't bring himself to do so.

If one can't give a POTUS credit for doing something so obviously positive for this country, how can anything he says ever be taken as being legitimate.

His hatred is so deep that he can't even do this without prodding. It's beyond pathetic.

Watch the name-calling RJ. I disagree with just about everything you say, but have always done so in a deliberate and respectful manner (even when you had me on ignore).

I have never said that I hate Obama and never will. I think he was grossly unprepared to become President and his first 2+ years have provent that to be true. Hell, even in his administration's finest moment they can't keep their stories straight and clearly had no plan in place for dealing with the aftermath of killing OBL. Taking 3 days to decide whether to release the photos makes him look foolish. Shouldn't this have been something that was discussed/decided before giving the final go-ahead to this attack?

I haven't commented on (or read) any of the OBL threads because I haven't had much time for the boards this week for business reasons. I do congratulate the President, as well as our armed forces, for a well-conceived, well-executed mission. I am glad OBL is dead and agree with the mission, but it's a hollow victory. He is undoubtedly a significant figurehead, but no longer integral to the operations of the terrorists we are dealing with. The Muslim Brotherhood is building significant power in Egypt, despite all the naysaying of you and others while Mubarak was being taken out. That's where our focus needs to be.

Since I haven't read any of the OBL threads, I'm curious if I would find any posts from you giving W credit for the policies on terrorism that Obama maintained/continued when he took office, despite his opposition to them as a Senator -- policies that were integral to developing the information Obama and our armed forces needed to plan and execute this mission. Should I go look for those posts?
 
There you go again. That's why they call it the "fog of war". only those looking for a reason to find something wrong. This is what happens in every war event.

As to W's policies, if W had done his job, OBL would have bene killed at Tora Bora or another time. sorry, W failed miserably as CIC.

He took to a totally unecessary war which he lied to start. There is nothing worse a POTUS can do than to lie to start a war of choice.
 
Please answer my question.

Whoever, Obama or McCain, should they have:

1) done nothing
2) done_____________

I'm not trying to be an asshole or a douche this time. I am interested in what he should have done, in your opinion. I understand your beef with what he did do. But I want you to now tell us what he should have done to meet with your approval.

84 -- you still haven't answered this
 
Please answer my question.

Whoever, Obama or McCain, should they have:

1) done nothing
2) done_____________

I'm not trying to be an asshole or a douche this time. I am interested in what he should have done, in your opinion. I understand your beef with what he did do. But I want you to now tell us what he should have done to meet with your approval.

One of my biggest problems with the "stimulus" plan is that Obama totally abdicated leadership on this and basically gave it Pelosi and Reid as a homework project. The result, to nobody's surprise, was a pork-filled monstrosity with little immediate impact. The "shovel-ready" jobs that Obama touted were nowhere to be found. The whole thing was a farce, just like FDR's public works measures (he was bailed out by the economic boom of WWII). A more measured approach (maybe $250 billion?), with a helluva lot more oversight as to how the money was going to be spent, would have been advisable. Instead, local governments were basically told that the bank was open and came up with all kinds of fraudulents programs that were going to "save jobs".

I wasn't in favor of the bank bailouts on Wall Street and the GM bailout shouldn't have happened either. We have seen how quickly Wall Street profits have bounced back, just like they always do after big market events. Like them or not, they always find ways to make money. The GM "pre-packaged" bankruptcy was such a mockery of the rule of law, it makes me sick to this day. GM bondholders were screwed over and the unions were made whole or close to it. How do you justify the disparity in the deals that were offered to each of those groups based on bankruptcy law??? Rather than bailing all of these companies out at taxpayers' expense, I would have proposed a 1-year tax amnesty on any corporate profits held overseas that are brought back and reinvested in manufacturing plants, so that the jobs we have been outsourcing to the rest of the world over the last 20 years could be brought back home. Otherwise, that capital is going to stay abroad and be reinvested abroad and we are left to cheer the 40,000 fast food jobs created by McDonalds.

QE I and II are just lipstick on a pig. You would think we might have learned something from Japan's lost decade. But we are making the same mistakes, cranking the printing presses at the Fed wide open. Instead we have created a mountain of new debt and aren't any better off for it.

So yes, I would have taken a somewhat more restrained approach and used tax policy to bring back the billions that companies have left overseas. The government has never been an effective (sustainable) job creator and never will be.
 
There you go again. That's why they call it the "fog of war". only those looking for a reason to find something wrong. This is what happens in every war event.

As to W's policies, if W had done his job, OBL would have bene killed at Tora Bora or another time. sorry, W failed miserably as CIC.

He took to a totally unecessary war which he lied to start. There is nothing worse a POTUS can do than to lie to start a war of choice.


Put me back on ignore, RJ. You still haven't figured out how to have a reasonable exchange of ideas and at this point there's little doubt that you ever will.
 
Two days later and the OBL death already seems like old hat. That's why I scoffed at those who somehow thought a 2nd term was assured. If it's assured, it will be because of a bad field or an economic recovery. One seems much more likely than the other right now.
 
One of my biggest problems with the "stimulus" plan is that Obama totally abdicated leadership on this and basically gave it Pelosi and Reid as a homework project. The result, to nobody's surprise, was a pork-filled monstrosity with little immediate impact. The "shovel-ready" jobs that Obama touted were nowhere to be found. The whole thing was a farce, just like FDR's public works measures (he was bailed out by the economic boom of WWII). A more measured approach (maybe $250 billion?), with a helluva lot more oversight as to how the money was going to be spent, would have been advisable. Instead, local governments were basically told that the bank was open and came up with all kinds of fraudulents programs that were going to "save jobs".

I wasn't in favor of the bank bailouts on Wall Street and the GM bailout shouldn't have happened either. We have seen how quickly Wall Street profits have bounced back, just like they always do after big market events. Like them or not, they always find ways to make money. The GM "pre-packaged" bankruptcy was such a mockery of the rule of law, it makes me sick to this day. GM bondholders were screwed over and the unions were made whole or close to it. How do you justify the disparity in the deals that were offered to each of those groups based on bankruptcy law??? Rather than bailing all of these companies out at taxpayers' expense, I would have proposed a 1-year tax amnesty on any corporate profits held overseas that are brought back and reinvested in manufacturing plants, so that the jobs we have been outsourcing to the rest of the world over the last 20 years could be brought back home. Otherwise, that capital is going to stay abroad and be reinvested abroad and we are left to cheer the 40,000 fast food jobs created by McDonalds.

QE I and II are just lipstick on a pig. You would think we might have learned something from Japan's lost decade. But we are making the same mistakes, cranking the printing presses at the Fed wide open. Instead we have created a mountain of new debt and aren't any better off for it.

So yes, I would have taken a somewhat more restrained approach and used tax policy to bring back the billions that companies have left overseas. The government has never been an effective (sustainable) job creator and never will be.

ok, so you would have preferred to do nothing much more than give tax incentives to corporations.

thank you for answering.
 
ok, so you would have preferred to do nothing much more than give tax incentives to corporations.

thank you for answering.

Sorry I wasted my time, if that's all you took from it. We need to creat jobs. Enlighten me on how effective you think the President's policies have been and what, if anything, you would have done differently.
 
Put me back on ignore, RJ. You still haven't figured out how to have a reasonable exchange of ideas and at this point there's little doubt that you ever will.

THere is nothing unreasonable in my post, but to you it's unreasonbable to disagree with you.
 
One of my biggest problems with the "stimulus" plan is that Obama totally abdicated leadership on this and basically gave it Pelosi and Reid as a homework project. The result, to nobody's surprise, was a pork-filled monstrosity with little immediate impact. The "shovel-ready" jobs that Obama touted were nowhere to be found. The whole thing was a farce, just like FDR's public works measures (he was bailed out by the economic boom of WWII). A more measured approach (maybe $250 billion?), with a helluva lot more oversight as to how the money was going to be spent, would have been advisable. Instead, local governments were basically told that the bank was open and came up with all kinds of fraudulents programs that were going to "save jobs".

I wasn't in favor of the bank bailouts on Wall Street and the GM bailout shouldn't have happened either. We have seen how quickly Wall Street profits have bounced back, just like they always do after big market events. Like them or not, they always find ways to make money. The GM "pre-packaged" bankruptcy was such a mockery of the rule of law, it makes me sick to this day. GM bondholders were screwed over and the unions were made whole or close to it. How do you justify the disparity in the deals that were offered to each of those groups based on bankruptcy law??? Rather than bailing all of these companies out at taxpayers' expense, I would have proposed a 1-year tax amnesty on any corporate profits held overseas that are brought back and reinvested in manufacturing plants, so that the jobs we have been outsourcing to the rest of the world over the last 20 years could be brought back home. Otherwise, that capital is going to stay abroad and be reinvested abroad and we are left to cheer the 40,000 fast food jobs created by McDonalds.

QE I and II are just lipstick on a pig. You would think we might have learned something from Japan's lost decade. But we are making the same mistakes, cranking the printing presses at the Fed wide open. Instead we have created a mountain of new debt and aren't any better off for it.

So yes, I would have taken a somewhat more restrained approach and used tax policy to bring back the billions that companies have left overseas. The government has never been an effective (sustainable) job creator and never will be.

84 and I have similar views on this so I will add a couple more things (not to speak for him, but from the general perspective that Obama was woefully unqualified for his task and has done nothing but screw up the economy).

1. Assuming the Stimulus Package was going to be passed anyway, I would have used funds to forgive/pay-off federally-subsidized student loans. If we're going to give money away, give it to the ones who have made the correct choices, while also giving some of them the financial flexibility to perhaps leave a mundane paycheck job to pursue a business idea. Plus, it increases discretionary spending across the country.

2. Eliminated the TARP incentives for banks to push foreclosures, and instead incentivize mortgage reductions. Again, benefit those who make the right choices by trying to pay off their debts, not pay banks more for foreclosing and writing off the foreclosures as bad debt just to increase their reimbursement ratios.

3. Prohibited banks from immediately arbitrarily freezing and calling commercial lines of credit that were otherwise in good standing. This resulted in more lost jobs than perhaps anything other than the construction slowdown, yet it is never mentioned.

4. Let Chrysler die its natural death.

5. Not passed the Healthcare Act. In addition not addressing any elements of healthcare costs, businesses (justly or not) are making long-term hiring decisions based on anticipated increased requirements. So not only is the Act limp-dicked on controlling any costs, but it discourages increased hiring. Brilliant.

6. Cut the red tape bullshit on new nuclear plants and let power companies get some off the ground to both create jobs and decrease our energy dependency.

7. Push hard for the Fair Tax Act or something similar. I realize this is the least likely to occur and the debate rages as to its impact across income levels, but if the objective is an immediate explosion of domestic working-class jobs, then it is the perfect solution.

This is just a quick list off the top of my head, but there are many things that he could have done that would have made more economic sense than what was done, at a much lower cost to taxpayers.
 
Pretty good thanks for asking

Man_throwing_money.jpg
 
One of my biggest problems with the "stimulus" plan is that Obama totally abdicated leadership on this and basically gave it Pelosi and Reid as a homework project. The result, to nobody's surprise, was a pork-filled monstrosity with little immediate impact. The "shovel-ready" jobs that Obama touted were nowhere to be found. The whole thing was a farce, just like FDR's public works measures (he was bailed out by the economic boom of WWII). A more measured approach (maybe $250 billion?), with a helluva lot more oversight as to how the money was going to be spent, would have been advisable. Instead, local governments were basically told that the bank was open and came up with all kinds of fraudulents programs that were going to "save jobs".

I wasn't in favor of the bank bailouts on Wall Street and the GM bailout shouldn't have happened either. We have seen how quickly Wall Street profits have bounced back, just like they always do after big market events. Like them or not, they always find ways to make money. The GM "pre-packaged" bankruptcy was such a mockery of the rule of law, it makes me sick to this day. GM bondholders were screwed over and the unions were made whole or close to it. How do you justify the disparity in the deals that were offered to each of those groups based on bankruptcy law??? Rather than bailing all of these companies out at taxpayers' expense, I would have proposed a 1-year tax amnesty on any corporate profits held overseas that are brought back and reinvested in manufacturing plants, so that the jobs we have been outsourcing to the rest of the world over the last 20 years could be brought back home. Otherwise, that capital is going to stay abroad and be reinvested abroad and we are left to cheer the 40,000 fast food jobs created by McDonalds.

QE I and II are just lipstick on a pig. You would think we might have learned something from Japan's lost decade. But we are making the same mistakes, cranking the printing presses at the Fed wide open. Instead we have created a mountain of new debt and aren't any better off for it.

So yes, I would have taken a somewhat more restrained approach and used tax policy to bring back the billions that companies have left overseas. The government has never been an effective (sustainable) job creator and never will be.

1st paragraph - rant against stimulus plan

2nd paragraph - rant against bank and GM bailout. propose 1 year tax amnesty for corporations

3rd paragraph - rant against QE1 and QE2

4th paragraph - say you would take a more restrained approach, with the only detail you provided was the above mentioned 1 year tax amnesty for corporations.


looks to me like wakeandbake got it right
 
As to W's policies, if W had done his job, OBL would have bene killed at Tora Bora or another time. sorry, W failed miserably as CIC.
Good thing W didn't get OBL at Tora Bora or Obama would have nothing to hang his hat on.

If W had gotten OBL at Tora Bora, who knows what things would be like now. We very well could have another Neo-Con as President.

With OBL out, the global financial crisis might have never happened or might have been more shallow. People don't often think about how much changed in our country after 9/11. Bin Laden's goal was to bankrupt us like he did Russia. He didn't care about killing people. He cared about scaring us into out spending ourselves.

If we got Bin Laden at Tora Bora, the terrorism threat may never have had the legs it does today.

Remember, before 9/11, we were arguing about what to do with the government SURPLUS.
 
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