• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

1/14/16 Republican National Debate

Trump's response to Cruz's New York values slam was Trump's best moment of the campaign. If Cruz hates NYC so much, why doesn't he take a principled stand and not fundraise there? Stupid and unnecessary shot by Cruz and as a bonus Trump got to use 9/11 while destroying Ted. No soup or VP for you.
 
I watch these GOP debates and wonder if I live in the same country these people are describing and talking about. It must suck to live in a constant state of fear of everything.
 
Oh come on. You saw the same thing when a republican was the incumbent. George bush was the devil incarnate.

You can't convince people that change is necessary unless they are first dissatisfied with the status quo.

What are these pubs supposed to say? "Obama is great! World is going fine! Elect me to keep it going!"
 
Wrangor said:
Oh come on. You saw the same thing when a republican was the incumbent. George bush was the devil incarnate.
Click to expand...

The economy was in the shitter and the rest of the world despised us.
 
We spent 10 trillion dollars to prop up the economy, we have massive non-participation rates in the economy which hides our true unemployment rate, and now the world doesn't hate us it just laughs at us.

#thanksObama

My point isn't that I think the world is falling. My point is that the opposition is always going to paint a bleak picture and the party in power is always going to paint roses. It is the way it works. It shouldn't come as a surprise or as some crazy conspiracy. It is politics and you would do the exact same thing in this situation. It is a primary. This means its time to paint your opposition as the bad guy. They aren't there to defend themselves so it is a safe way to get the crowd on your side. Both sides do it. Heck, Obama used the same technique in his SOTU address.
 
Wrangor said:
Oh come on. You saw the same thing when a republican was the incumbent. George bush was the devil incarnate.

You can't convince people that change is necessary unless they are first dissatisfied with the status quo.

What are these pubs supposed to say? "Obama is great! World is going fine! Elect me to keep it going!"
Click to expand...

Rhetoric is rhetoric, but the overheated paranoia, fear and race-baiting that parts of the GOP are spewing this election cycle is very, very different from the 2004 Democratic rhetoric about Bush's war-mongering and executive overreach. Some of these guys are actively trying to get votes by telling people that their lives are in danger, America is under attack by Muslims, and we have to build a giant wall to keep the Mexicans out. It's a pretty disgusting dive for the lowest common denominator.
 
Take out Trump it is no different from any other election on that scale. Trump is skewing everything. Still boggles my mind he is in the race. Its like a bad dream.
 
To be fair, the Bush campaign wasn't above fear mongering in 2004. The hawkish elements of the GOP are loud.
 
Wrangor, did you think Americans were truly at risk of an Ebola epidemic in Fall 2014?
 
DeaconBrews said:
That was very entertaining
Click to expand...

Were you near the "We want Rand" people? Get any numbers from the Trump babes? Who did the crowd think won? That line from Christie to Rubio, "No, you had your chance Marco" and the Rubio attack on Cruz were two of the more entertaining moments.
 
It was really weird, the We Want Rand people randomly started chanting that and everyone gave them a WTF look and then they just sat back down.

Saw the two trump sons right away, same haircut. Their wives and Ivanka were also there.

Jeb comes off as super beta, too try hard.

Cruz is slimy. Just seems very very rehearsed. I had never watched Green Acres, but he's basically Mr. Haney.

Trump didn't really say anything too backbreaking or funny, but him getting Cruz to clap like a seal after the "NY Values" comment was great.

They need to be #FeelingTheBern a little more, he's not far back from HillDawg.
 
DeaconBrews said:
It was really weird, the We Want Rand people randomly started chanting that and everyone gave them a WTF look and then they just sat back down.

Saw the two trump sons right away, same haircut. Their wives and Ivanka were also there.

Jeb comes off as super beta, too try hard.

Cruz is slimy. Just seems very very rehearsed. I had never watched Green Acres, but he's basically Mr. Haney.

Trump didn't really say anything too backbreaking or funny, but him getting Cruz to clap like a seal after the "NY Values" comment was great.

They need to be #FeelingTheBern a little more, he's not far back from HillDawg.
Click to expand...

They dismiss Bernie because he's a socialist. What they forget is that socialism is good
 
I don't see how Trump loses. Even if Cruz manages to win Iowa, Trump will crush him in NH, SC, and everywhere else. I remember Pat Robertson winning Iowa- it meant nothing when it came to his chances. Cruz is very unlikable. Rubio is more polished than Cruz but he's too far behind. Jeb needs to drop out, he just comes across as sad, Kasich is boring, Carson has a delivery that makes him sound stoned and seems super weird, and Christie is at like 1% and has zero chance.
 
 
Wrangor said:
Oh come on. You saw the same thing when a republican was the incumbent. George bush was the devil incarnate.

You can't convince people that change is necessary unless they are first dissatisfied with the status quo.

What are these pubs supposed to say? "Obama is great! World is going fine! Elect me to keep it going!"
Click to expand...

This is disingenuous. The GOP began the smear and fear campaign against Obama from before day one.

“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

The Bush stuff didn't start until after he lied and used fear to invade Iraq.
 
Dems treated Bush better after 9/11 than Republicans treated Obama after Osama bin Laden was captured.
 
5698a0652a00002c0003093f.jpeg
 
I can't figure out what matters to the bulk of the GOP in these debates. Politico has a group of insiders from the first four states and they said Rubio won comfortably (39%) with Trump and Cruz tied for second at 19% and then Bush at 14%. I thought Bush did pretty well last night and I really feel for him and Kasich because they're up there making pragmatic points, underlining where the rhetoric of the frontrunners is just that: talk with no chance of real-world implementation, and they just consistently get shit on by most of the GOP.

Then I see Drudge had a poll of over 200k GOP members and Trump had 55% of the support as the "winner" of the debate.

My thoughts from last night, with almost everyone taking a direct hit of some kind is below. The issue I have with being a "winner" in these debates are each candidate is going for something different. Cruz and Trump are trying to appeal to the Tea Party/hard right wing, Bush Kasich and Christie are battling for the establishment vote, Rubio is still trying to figure out who he wants to be when he grows up, Carson is done.

Cruz: Came across as confident and obviously knew the Goldman Sachs question was coming and knocked it out of the park. Rolled around in the mud with Trump and looked bad about the New York values comment (playing up the North/South divide to South Carolina crowd). Doesn't appear to know what a VAT is or if he does he's not sure what to call his own tax plan. He also seemed to omit a large portion of his "simple" tax plan that Rubio pointed out. Took a few shots from Rubio towards the end of the night that didn't make Cruz look very good.

Bush: One of the only candidates who "looks presidential" which is likely a negative for him in this election cycle. Does a good job being pragmatic but that doesn't play well with most other candidates going for shock and awe. Needs to stop taking the bait from Trump and let others get dirty while he stays a bit above the fray. Probably one of his better debate performances, but still likely isn't going to move the meter on him for most Republicans. He's going to stay in this until the end, but I think he's finished.

Christie: Was he a U.S. Attorney? It didn't come up last night I don't think. Seriously Chris we get it you fought crime, good work - move on to something else. Similarly to Bush he had some good policy details with concrete plans while some others just seem to be talking. He's very very forceful in his attacks against Obama which I think is due largely to the impression that he's bosom buddies because of one hug years back. I thought Christie fared well and was confident. One of his better debate performances as well. Good answer on entitlements and infrastructure.

Trump: First time I remember him coming across as sincere and heartfelt with the answer to the New York values question. Got dirty rolling around in the mud with Cruz and didn't come off looking very good with the birther position on Cruz and political gamesmanship (although I doubt that really hurts him). Not his best debate but not bad. I don't think anything Trump says or does really matters at this point, his ratings keep climbing regardless.

Rubio - relatively non-existent, comes across as a little brother who is eager to catch the older brothers' (Trump and Cruz) attention and tag along with them. Really went in on Obama and Clinton. He seems to have stood out to the media as performing well from what I've read but I didn't think this was one of his strongest debates. Did get in a few good hits on Cruz but I thought they both came off looking somewhat sleazy. He may not really know what a VAT is either - both he and Cruz seemed a little off on that.l

Carson: off in space somewhere. Seemed more relaxed than he had before (doesn't even seem possible but he was) and showed some self-awareness for the first time ever. Woefully unprepared to discuss specifics of any policy - domestic or foreign - and clearly has no idea what international relations or politics are like. He's done and he's by far the worst candidate based on substance of the seven on stage.

Kasich: What state are you the governor of? Seems like a research group told him that every time he mentions Ohio his ratings go up. I think he is very qualified and is able to discuss substantive policy with ease. He seemed to agree with Trump as a way of throwing a bone out to the right wingers to say "hey I'm not just a moderate Republican." Faces the same issues Bush does in that he's too politically minded and focused on pragmatic solutions to win a sizable chunk of the GOP vote in this election but last night was a fine performance for him.

Moderators: Non-existent. Maybe this is a better format, but they seemed to just let anyone ramble and talk who wanted to. They seemed to be loose with the facts when asking questions in order to frame a better narrative question and I specifically thought the question about "is Hillary an enabler" with regard to Bill was an absolute low blow and an inappropriate question for a debate.

In general I wondered at times if the questions were pitched beforehand to the candidates. Specific candidates seemed to have questions directed where they had plans laid out and wanted a stage to talk about them. My girlfriend thought the whole thing was a soap opera and was basically scripted tv. I wouldn't go that far, but some of the answers were very clearly rehearsed.

If I had to rate performances in order:

1. Cruz
2. Bush
3. Trump
4. Christie
5. Rubio
6. Kasich











7. Carson
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top