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15-15

DeaconWalker said:
There is a difference between expectations and reality. My expectations for Wake Forest haven't been lowered, we should have, at the very least, 20 wins every season. The reality is that we aren't going to do that with the way things currently are.
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And yet you seem to be hinting that [Redacted] is not the person most responsible for "the way things currently are". If he is the person most responsible for "the way things currently are" (and I firmly believe he and Kim Ron Il are), then he should be held accountable for "how things are" compared to expectations.
 
PhDeac said:
So you've lowered your expectations based on reality.
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No, you are mixing the two. My expectations are that we need, at the very least, 20 wins every season. The reality is that isn't going to happen this year. I'm not lowering my expectations, I'm severely disappointed with how this year turned out and I believe there should be repercussions.

whodatdeac said:
And yet you seem to be hinting that [Redacted] is not the person most responsible for "the way things currently are". If he is the person most responsible for "the way things currently are" (and I firmly believe he and Kim Ron Il are), then he should be held accountable for "how things are" compared to expectations.
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Is this really what this has devolved to? If someone doesn't overtly bash [Redacted] in every post then they most be a [Redacted] lover? I think they are all to blame. The coaches need to coach better, the players need to play better on the road, Wellman needs to be honest about his mistakes. Was [Redacted] responsible for the train wreck he walked into his first year? No, I don't believe so. Is his current situation where he isn't winning enough games with the talent we have his responsibility? Most definitely. Don't twist my words.
 
How is Bz not responsible for the first year?

Is any coach responsible for their first year?
 
Since we're just re-hashing old arguments, I think I'm allowed to re-post a post from a few months ago. Link

Responding to the question "Did anybody seriously think that team would be under .500 until Bz was hired?" I answered:

Uh, yea. We were picked last in the ACC preseason poll. KenPom had us winning 12 games.

Yes, both of those events were after [Redacted] was hired, but I do not believe either of them would have been substantially different with Dino as HC (I can say with certainty than the KenPom part wouldn't be).

College Hoops Net picked the Deacs last in the ACC, and #137 nationally, with no projected postseason appearance. And that's with a mostly positive assessment of the [Redacted] hire.
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Long story short: We were going to suck in 2011, no matter the coach. The issue with [Redacted]'s tenure here is that we also sucked in 2012, and we still suck in 2013.
 
if we go 18-12 (11-7; notable win over miami) would we make the tournament?
 
And we finished well below those predictions. Not sure of the point.
 
PhDeac said:
How is Bz not responsible for the first year?

Is any coach responsible for their first year?
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So it's Buzz's fault that Tony Woods got into an altercation with his gf, that Chennault was hobbled for half of the season, Ari having a horrible attitude, and Ty being worthless? That's what I mean when I say it wasn't really his fault. He only had so many scholarship players going into that season as it was and when you count out half of your players as being usable it kind of makes it difficult to win. Like I said, I put the blame on him now, because it is his talent that he can't win on the road with. I know they are freshman, but they are damn talented freshman. We should have at least one ACC road win. So that is where my distinction lies. That is also where the distinction between expectations and reality is. The expectations I have for the talent this team is 20+ wins. The reality is that with this coach we won't get there, thus we need a change. He had his three years so it is time to move on.
 
If we can win tomorrow, I think we can get to 8 ACC wins. CJ and Travis need to step up and lead. Solid D by Devin, a little something out of Codi and Moto or Cav and I think we win.
 
PhDeac said:
And we finished well below those predictions. Not sure of the point.
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Point is that giving coaches the lion's share of the blame (or credit) for what happens in their first year is dumb. Not sure how you missed that.
 
I think people keep forgetting that CP3's jersey is being retired at the MD game. That changes the normal dynamics for this game.
 
stonz said:
Point is that giving coaches the lion's share of the blame (or credit) for what happens in their first year is dumb. Not sure how you missed that.
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That isn't what you said in your post. Your point was that we were going to suck anyway and I pointed out that we sucked even worse.
 
PhDeac said:
That isn't what you said in your post. Your point was that we were going to suck anyway and I pointed out that we sucked even worse.
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It was clearly implied.
 
stonz said:
It was clearly implied.
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It wasn't. If you said you were replying to my post, you would have made that point.

Doesn't matter. Ridiculous either way. That season is on his record. He's responsible for turning things around. Almost every new coach takes over a rough situation. That's why wthe previous guy got fired. No excuse. Don't take a job if you can't do it right from the second you take it.
 
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