• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

'17 Specials & '18 Midterms Thread

ImTheCaptain said:
"finally, a Democrat who disagrees with Conservative hardliners"
Click to expand...
I share this sentiment. *Gets back on his soapbox* Red state democrats are far more politically correct and socially liberal than we tend to acknowledge.

Moderate Dems (socially liberal, more fiscally conservative) tend to make the argument that red state Dems can't be TOO liberal or they wont be electable, yet they don't seem to realize that those "moderate" Dems are far more socially liberal than their overall constituency. It seems to me that this level of moderation thats required for Dems in red states is limited to economic theology, which from a populist perspective is completely backwards.
 
Cruz was trying to attack Beto on the NFL issue recently and, whether the question was planted or not, there was no doubt someone hired by his campaign there hoping to catch an awkward response on video. It's important, especially in a red state, for Beto to be able to answer that question clearly in a genuine manner.

I think voters who disagree with him on this issue would be more likely to vote for him after that answer than if he went with a more weaselly "I don't like it either, but..." kind of response that would attempt to meet them halfway.

But that's from someone who agrees with him.
 
Doubt it. 99.9 of the people pissed about players kneeling are brainwashed Trump shills. I bet that issue polls more partisan than abortion.
 
I think it was an important response because it went beyond" it's their right," to actually engaging and centering the actual issue that is being protested. By affirming the military AND uplifting civil rights activists as heroes who have fought and sacrificed for the freedom of all people in this country, he goes beyond tolerating the protest toward honoring it. Then highlighting the reason for the protest (police brutality, the lack of justice, AND frustration with the inaction of "good, white liberals"), bring the conversation back to how do we make an America that works for all people rather than arguing about a flag. Not perfect, but a pretty good response for a politician in campaign mode.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Doubt it. 99.9 of the people pissed about players kneeling are brainwashed Trump shills. I bet that issue polls more partisan than abortion.
Click to expand...

Not trying to call you out specifically, but how does this reconcile with what we discussed yesterday re: poor white voters and racism? Are they brainwashed Trump shills and therefore should be dismissed? Is it the same kind of question to ask if they are immutable? Maybe the distinction here is that you are already talking about Trump supporters, and not a more general demographic.
 
MHBDemon said:
Not trying to call you out specifically, but how does this reconcile with what we discussed yesterday re: poor white voters and racism? Are they brainwashed Trump shills and therefore should be dismissed? Is it the same kind of question to ask if they are immutable? Maybe the distinction here is that you are already talking about Trump supporters, and not a more general demographic.
Click to expand...
I didn't mention poor voters on this topic. I believe racism and authoritarianism are both largely immutable character traits that don't track with economic class. Plenty of racists voted for Obama and stayed racist.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I think it was an important response because it went beyond" it's their right," to actually engaging and centering the actual issue that is being protested. By affirming the military AND uplifting civil rights activists as heroes who have fought and sacrificed for the freedom of all people in this country, he goes beyond tolerating the protest toward honoring it. Then highlighting the reason for the protest (police brutality, the lack of justice, AND frustration with the inaction of "good, white liberals"), bring the conversation back to how do we make an America that works for all people rather than arguing about a flag. Not perfect, but a pretty good response for a politician in campaign mode.
Click to expand...

Yep. And I don’t think he mentioned the flag and he barely mentioned the police. It was perhaps the least polarizing answer he could give.

Anybody on the fence would probably feel better about Beto. Any Democrats not excited about Beto are probably more excited now.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I didn't mention poor voters on this topic. I believe racism and authoritarianism are both largely immutable character traits that don't track with economic class. Plenty of racists voted for Obama and stayed racist.
Click to expand...

No one is born racist or authoritarian. Almost every “-ism” is an environmentally learned trait. Unfortunately, America has a crisis in curiosity and despite information being more widely and readily available than at any point in human history, a large portion of Americans never reach out to find information that would challege their beliefs. But that doesn’t make those traits “immutable”.
 
AsesinoDeTortugas said:
No one is born racist or authoritarian. Almost every “-ism” is an environmentally learned trait. Unfortunately, America has a crisis in curiosity and despite information being more widely and readily available than at any point in human history, a large portion of Americans never reach out to find information that would challege their beliefs. But that doesn’t make those traits “immutable”.
Click to expand...
I didn't say racism was inherited or innate, immutable just means it doesnt change over time, specifically in my opinion, a person doesnt become LESS racist over time, and even to the extent that a racist person or group can be rehabilitated, a political candidate does not have that influential capability. Long story short, Beto isn't converting racists with a great speech.
 
The DNC should be spending tens of millions in TX to get out the Hispanic, black, female and 18-29 vote. It seems Beto has closed the gap to 4%.
 
RJKarl said:
The DNC should be spending tens of millions in TX to get out the Hispanic, black, female and 18-29 vote. It seems Beto has closed the gap to 4%.
Click to expand...
That would be such a gut punch to the Republican party to knock that asshole out of office. They need to go door-to-door in every dorm building, housing project, trailer park, taqueria, catholic church in the state and bus people to the polls
 
New Reuters poll has 85% of democrats supporting medicare for all and 51% of republicans. STOP LISTENING TO CENTRISTS.
 
MHBDemon said:
New Reuters poll has 85% of democrats supporting medicare for all and 51% of republicans. STOP LISTENING TO CENTRISTS.
Click to expand...

You’re the centrist now, dog.
 
MHBDemon said:
New Reuters poll has 85% of democrats supporting medicare for all and 51% of republicans. STOP LISTENING TO CENTRISTS.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is similar to the problem with the initial polls that showed poor public support for "Obamacare" but high levels of support for the things the ACA actually did. People have no idea what this would actually mean in practice and what tradeoffs it would require. But "Medicare for all" is a great slogan. It could very well be that some variant of a medicare for all plan is a direction we should go, and maybe we shouldn't listen to "centrists", but we need to listen to debate between serious policy experts, not uniformed public opinion polls about an incredibly complex legislation that costs $40+ trillion and would radically remake our health care system.
 
MHBDemon said:
John Brennan 2020!
Click to expand...

2gfe5b.jpg

2gfe5b
 
Most people don’t understand either Medicare or Medicare for all.


But most people who’ve much encountered our health care (including insurance) system understand we need a much better system. One that everyone reasonably pays into and is there to reasonably meet the needs of, well, everyone.

Obamacare was the best effort in forever to move in the right direction. I hope Pubs will rue the time they savaged it. Their behavior wrt the ACA has been cynical, selfish, dishonest and despicable.

Medicare for all may be the price (to their minds) they end up paying for their (hopefully) short-term political gains in vilifying Obamacare.
 
If the election was in December/January rather early November, people would understand the impact of Trump's insane actions. Tens of millions will see their premiums explode in November. Some will lose coverage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top