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2014 Creighton/2005 Wake Forest Offensive Efficiency

Slider, to your point, the Kenpom metric is simply an adjusted average. It doesn't mean the number one offense is going to look like the number one offense every night. And obviously if most of your attention is on offense and very little on defense you are going to get snake bit.

I'd be interested to know how the number one ranked offenses faired year to year. Did any win a national championship? Then I'd be interested to see how the number one defenses faired and compare the two. My hunch is the number one defenses did better.
 
Yeah I get that it is just an average. But my point is that if what it says is the #1 offense (not even for just one year, but of the past decade) consistently choked in the clutch and didn't result in any significant achievements, then it is simply not the #1 offense, and the metric is just another useless way to artificially overcomplicate sports. Performing under pressure is perhaps the most important factor in differentiating players and teams at the highest levels. This stat apaprently completely ignores that component, which makes it irrelevant.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
Slider, to your point, the Kenpom metric is simply an adjusted average. It doesn't mean the number one offense is going to look like the number one offense every night. And obviously if most of your attention is on offense and very little on defense you are going to get snake bit.

I'd be interested to know how the number one ranked offenses faired year to year. Did any win a national championship? Then I'd be interested to see how the number one defenses faired and compare the two. My hunch is the number one defenses did better.
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Defense wins championships.

Only under Dino most recently has Wake played any semblance of a defense at all.:mad:
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Performing under pressure is perhaps the most important factor in differentiating players and teams at the highest levels. This stat apaprently completely ignores that component, which makes it irrelevant.
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By that standard almost all commonly used stats are irrelevant.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Yes, I generally agree. Plenty of guys and teams put up fantastic stats but don't win shit.
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This is like the silly argument about recruiting rankings. Sure, there are exceptions of stat leaders who don't win and winners who aren't stat leaders, but championship teams are generally well ranked in many statistical categories.
 
2&2, I have a present for you:

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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
But that's the point. That game was more important than any other in that season. And that heightened importance is not reflected in a "data point".
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So, when determining a home run leader, should home runs count more if they are hit in the World Series? What about walk-off home runs to win a game?

Importance of the game means something to you as a fan, but it's meaningless in calculating the offensive efficiency of a team over the course of an entire season.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
But that's the point. That game was more important than any other in that season. And that heightened importance is not reflected in a "data point".
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When you pull the best player in the country and the engine of your team off the court with little prior experience dealing with that situation, what do you expect? And it's not like State was bad that year. They made the Sweet 16.
 
RacerDeac said:
So, when determining a home run leader, should home runs count more if they are hit in the World Series? What about walk-off home runs to win a game?

Importance of the game means something to you as a fan, but it's meaningless in calculating the offensive efficiency of a team over the course of an entire season.
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If the goal is to determine who hit the most home runs in a season, then it is just straight numbers. If, however, the discussion is who is the best home run hitter in the game, then hell yes the situations factor in.

If calculating offensive efficiency (whatever formula that definition has been ascribed to) of a team is the ultimate goal and indicates that the 04-05 Wake team is #1, then fantastic, we win at the game of meaningless statistics. If the goal is to determine the best offensive team, then that formula does not work.
 
Dino Gaudino said:
When you pull the best player in the country and the engine of your team off the court with little prior experience dealing with that situation, what do you expect? And it's not like State was bad that year. They made the Sweet 16.
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I'm not arguing why we lost or that we shouldn't have lost. I'm saying that if we were actually the best offensive team of the last 10 years, we wouldn't have lost, especially in that manner.

And, we had a senior backup PG who got starters minutes and JR SG.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I'm not arguing why we lost or that we shouldn't have lost. I'm saying that if we were actually the best offensive team of the last 10 years, we wouldn't have lost, especially in that manner.
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That's not great logic. Like someone already said, offense is only half of the game. Paul was also by far our best perimeter defender that season, too. He elevated that team likely from the bubble to a 2 seed.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I wouldn't use a manufactured stat, I would use my eyes and who won. Who gives a shit how many points we score per possession if we miss the ones that count? How did the best offense in the nation of the last 10 years score 65 points in an ACC tournament loss to the fucking Wolfpack? How did the best offense in the nation of the last 10 years go ice cold against Illinois in a showcase national game? How did the best offense in the nation of the last 10 years get outgunned by Mike fucking Gansey? It's not like WVU was playing much defense in that game either, we simply got out-scored.

Whose offense would you take to win a game - that team or the Florida teams where Humphrey and Brewer made every big shot imaginable? Howabout the UConn team with Kemba Walker's giant balls?

Did that team score a lot of points - sure. Was it fun to watch on offense - absolutely. Was it the best offense in the nation in the past 10 years - no fucking way, and the results bore it out. That offense repeatedly choked in the spotlight, which is about as far from what the best offense should do as you can get.
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I'm dumber for simply having read this whole post.
 
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