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2020 Carolina Panthers Thread

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The odds of getting a player in the late 3rd round as good as KB are pretty slim.
 
I’ve realized our dream scenario is for MJ to own the team when Richardson dies. We are fucked but we’ll have dope jerseys.
 
PhDeac said:
First, he leaves a huge hole on a playoff contending team.

Second, the 3rd round pick isn't much higher than the compensatory pick we would get if we let him walk.
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I don’t post here often (because I have people outside the message board to talk panthers with) but have been a panthers fan my whole life. I haven’t liked Kelvin Benjamin for the entire time he’s been in Carolina and thinks he drags down the offense considerably. I personally don’t think this makes our offense worse - considering he’s third on the team in targets and would likely be fourth if Olsen was healthy. He and Funchess don’t work together so I don’t see this as a hole, though I could be wrong -we’ll see.

As for your second point, I’m unsure of how compensatory picks are decided. I always assumed they were be based on performance and if that’s the case, I don’t think Kelvin is worth a 3rd rounder. As a disclaimer, (as I said before) I haven’t liked what Kelvin brings to the offense since he was drafted so my view on him may be skewed.
 
PhDeac said:
Even if we get better on offense, it would be tough to attribute it to not having KB. Anything Shula can do without KB, they could have done with him.
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I understand this take, but Shula has had essentially the same style offense when KB is healthy and has refused to change it. Again, this could be a sort of “forcing the hand” of Shula to change the offense move by GM. He was forced to change the offense a bit when Kelvin was injured in ‘15 and it worked out well. We will see how it plays out.
 
Charlotte, you can't trade a comp pick. If Buffalo doesn't spit the bit, the pick will be in the 80's range. That would be worth 190 points on the jimmy Johnson draft pick value chart. Today, the Panthers would be picking 23rd in the first round. That 3 rd pick could be used to trade up a couple of spots (at least 3) in the first round to get the player they want. It could be used to trade from #55 in the second round to #36. With the comp pick, you would be stuck at #99ish. here's the chart:https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm
 
You can trade a comp pick now. 2017 was the first draft where it was allowed.
 
This trade definitely makes the Panthers immediately worse if for no other reason than we can’t fill out a full roster of receivers.
 
Let me clarify about what I said about KB being a bad locker room guy. That was just a quick way to put it from my phone. The article in the Observer actually does a good job of wording it. The article says he's a "high maintenance player" and "not a natural leader" and can be a prima donna. He also is not a hard practice player, and tends to be lazy in the off season too. All of this is known by any casual fan and is written about many times all year or at the very least it's alluded to and is obvious. He's been caught overweight each year before camp. That's not a common problem AT ALL for receivers in the NFL. Very unusual. KB has been caught on the field at times too - not hustling for tackles after an interception and things like that. He's a good receiver and can make big plays and Cam definitely liked that, but he's just not one of the better practice and workers on the team by ANY stretch. He's not a lead by example guy at all. That's really all I meant by saying he's a bad locker room guy. I should have said that he's not a good locker room guy I guess.

And remember, the Panthers went 15-1 and almost won the Super Bowl with him on crutches on the sidelines. With the same offensive coordinator and I would argue that the receiving corps the Panthers have now certainly has the ability to step up at least as well as that group did.
 
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I agree with a lot of the above. The offense has never been stellar with him on the field and had far an away its best season with him sidelined. I'd be much more comfortable with this if Samuel had shown anything at this point or we hadn't let Ginn walk in the offseason, but this is certainly a possibility for addition by subtraction.
 
PhDeac said:
None of that justifies getting rid of KB. It justifies not playing KB and Funchess together. It justifies using Shepherd, Samuel, and Byrd as deep threats. But not trading him for essentially nothing.
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This x1000. Manage your personnel and talent better. Don't trade it away for nothing.
 
guitardeac said:
Let me clarify about what I said about KB being a bad locker room guy. That was just a quick way to put it from my phone. The article in the Observer actually does a good job of wording it. The article says he's a "high maintenance player" and "not a natural leader" and can be a prima donna. He also is not a hard practice player, and tends to be lazy in the off season too. All of this is known by any casual fan and is written about many times all year or at the very least it's alluded to and is obvious. He's been caught overweight each year before camp. That's not a common problem AT ALL for receivers in the NFL. Very unusual. KB has been caught on the field at times too - not hustling for tackles after an interception and things like that. He's a good receiver and can make big plays and Cam definitely liked that, but he's just not one of the better practice and workers on the team by ANY stretch. He's not a lead by example guy at all. That's really all I meant by saying he's a bad locker room guy. I should have said that he's not a good locker room guy I guess.

And remember, the Panthers went 15-1 and almost won the Super Bowl with him on crutches on the sidelines. With the same offensive coordinator and I would argue that the receiving corps the Panthers have now certainly has the ability to step up at least as well as that group did.
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Yes, he's had weight issues before. Yes, that's a rarity in the NFL. Yes, he has a frame that is also atypical for an NFL WR.

Judging by the responses of his former teammates on Twitter, however, suggesting he's a bad locker room guy is just a combination of sour grapes and cluelessness.

BTW, if you're suggesting that the Panthers SB season happened because of him instead of in spite of him, your hot takes are even more entertaining than previously thought.
 
Let me also add that the Panthers would have had to sign Benjamin to a long term deal after this season, or let him go in free agency and get nothing. That was probably not a choice the Panthers were looking forward to making. He likely would have commanded a much higher salary than he is making now, and with the redundancy and other issues mentioned the Panthers may not have felt like they would want to do that. If that's the case then they would have let him become a free agent and gotten no draft picks for him. This was likely not a situation they wanted to find themselves in, so they hedged their bets.
 
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siff said:
Yes, he's had weight issues before. Yes, that's a rarity in the NFL. Yes, he has a frame that is also atypical for an NFL WR.

Judging by the responses of his former teammates on Twitter, however, suggesting he's a bad locker room guy is just a combination of sour grapes and cluelessness.

BTW, if you're suggesting that the Panthers SB season happened because of him instead of in spite of him, your hot takes are even more entertaining than previously thought.
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Geez. What the hell. I clarified what I meant. Done. And I didn't suggest it happened BECAUSE of him. Holy shit these guys on here sometimes.....
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I understand this take, but Shula has had essentially the same style offense when KB is healthy and has refused to change it. Again, this could be a sort of “forcing the hand” of Shula to change the offense move by GM. He was forced to change the offense a bit when Kelvin was injured in ‘15 and it worked out well. We will see how it plays out.
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If you have to trade away your personnel to get your idiot offensive coordinator to change the offense, then you've got a problem with your offensive coordinator. It seems like the logical response to that would be to make the change at OC, not WR1
 
guitardeac said:
Let me also add that the Panthers would have had to sign Benjamin to a long term deal after this season, or let him go in free agency and get nothing. That was probably not a choice the Panthers were looking forward to making. He likely would have commanded a much higher salary than he is making now, and with the redundancy and other issues mentioned the Panthers may not have felt like they would want to do that. If that's the case then they would have let him become a free agent and gotten no draft picks for him. This was likely not a situation they wanted to find themselves in, so they hedged their bets.
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If he had left as a free agent, they would have gotten a compensatory pick for him, likely a late 3rd round pick maybe 15-20 picks lower than the Bills pick.
 
PhDeac said:
If he had left as a free agent, they would have gotten a compensatory pick for him, likely a late 3rd round pick maybe 15-20 picks lower than the Bills pick.
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Support of this move is illogical, especially with the compensatory pick. If your number 1 receiver isn't the long term guy, maybe draft a replacement, or get someone else before letting him go. This was the type of move a 1-7 team makes, not a 5-3 team.
 
Yep I forgot KB was a unrestricted FA. They MIGHT have gotten a 3rd round compensatory pick or it could be lower. That whole thing is a moving target and hard to pin down. Had they benched him or cut back his snaps to do what they wanted to with the offense, the pick would drop. As playing time is a big part of the formula. As are post season accolades, which is a big part of why Josh Norman's loss caused a 3rd round compensatory pick. He was certainly more highly decorated at that time and considered a bigger value than KB. They appear to have felt a little bit stuck in terms of doing what they wanted with the offense. They felt KB and Funchess clogged up the middle of the field. At it's best, it appears the pick would have been a 3rd round pick much lower than they get now maybe up to 30 picks lower depending on how the Bills finish out. Plus no 7th round pick. Plus they're put in the position of having to take his playing time into account between what they want to do on the field vs what they can get for him later. It's just hard as heck to nail that compensatory pick formula especially in the future.

And I am not saying I support the decision to trade KB. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. Still trying to sort through it. See both sides.
 
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