• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

I don’t really know what you are getting at. First you say Dems have taken on the branding, you admit that it has become a catchall term for universal healthcare, only to turn around and deny that anyone is co-opting Medicare for all.
 
Why are you being evasive? Your whole point is Dem centrists are co-opting M4A and you can’t name names.

I think it’s fine that Dems are uniting around universal health care regardless of what it’s called. You aren’t fine with that but you can’t identify which candidates are stealing Bernie’s thunder.
 
Last edited:
PhDeac said:
Why are you being evasive? Your whole point is Dem centrists are co-opting M4A and you can’t name names.

I think it’s fine that Dems are uniting around universal health care regardless of what it’s called. You aren’t fine with that but you can’t identify which candidates are stealing Bernie’s thunder.
Click to expand...

Beto and Kamala has walked back her original endorsement; I’m not sure what her plan is exactly
 
Universal (access to affordable) healthcare. It’s not really sufficient to say they all support universal healthcare without analyzing their plans. And since I support Medicare 4 All, i obviously don’t think the other plans reach the 5 stated policy goals posted earlier. You have admitted Dems have co-opted the term and then turned around and denied the same thing because i won’t provide you a list of names. Congrats i guess.
 
I’m not denying it at all. I just want you to list names. You won’t because then you would have to admit that the only way to accomplish your goal is for Bernie to win.
 
E.J. Dionne: Will Democrats fight Trump or each other?


Of course, it's not as simple as either/or. The nature of our system is they must do both. But I agree with the overall idea in this piece. Including these two proposals and the conclusion:

...But here are two modest proposals. First, Democratic presidential candidates should join in an informal union and agree to stop answering “raise your hands” questions in debates. Inevitably, they are forced later to say that this or that issue is complicated, that the question they were asked was not exactly the right question — and the more they explain themselves, the more slippery they look. Inevitabley, they are forced later to say that this or that issue is complicated — and the more they explain themselves, the more slippery they look.

Second, Democratic primary voters should add a new criterion to their list of must-haves: Who among these candidates is best suited to create the diverse alliance that must come together to beat Trump? This is not an argument for automatically picking the most “moderate” candidate. The nominee will certainly need middle-of-the-roaders who recognize what a disaster Trump’s presidency is. But she or he must also mobilize younger progressives into the electorate. Rarely has a party been more in need of raw political talent.

House Democrats need to get their act together.

Pelosi’s colleagues should then ponder a variation on a query from baseball lore: Can anyone here play a long game?

This requires assessing how much clout you have now (it’s limited) and what your job is (improving the chances of defeating Trump and thereby earning the ability to get much more done after 2020).

It will be unforgivable if the opponents of a genuinely dangerous and immoral regime indulge themselves with inward-looking feuds when history’s demands upon them could not be clearer.
Click to expand...
 
PhDeac said:
I’m not denying it at all. I just want you to list names. You won’t because then you would have to admit that the only way to accomplish your goal is for Bernie to win.
Click to expand...

Which is why my local dsa chapter is canvassing Sharice Davids' district. What a bullshit line of argumentation. Whatever makes you feel better about supporting the McKinsey guy.
 
ConnorEl said:
E.J. Dionne: Will Democrats fight Trump or each other?


Of course, it's not as simple as either/or. The nature of our system is they must do both. But I agree with the overall idea in this piece. Including these two proposals and the conclusion:
Click to expand...

Does he have an editor?

Inevitably, they are forced later to say that this or that issue is complicated, that the question they were asked was not exactly the right question — and the more they explain themselves, the more slippery they look. Inevitabley, they are forced later to say that this or that issue is complicated — and the more they explain themselves, the more slippery they look.
Click to expand...
 
It's complicated!


lol

That duplication is not in the printed edition. Nor (just checking) the WP online edition. Must be a W-SJ special edit.
 
MHBDemon said:
Which is why my local dsa chapter is canvassing Sharice Davids' district. What a bullshit line of argumentation. Whatever makes you feel better about supporting the McKinsey guy.
Click to expand...

You’re the one who is full of shit. You’re not about establishing a universal health care system to better our lives. You’re about getting Bernie elected. That’s the Bernie or Bust BS that got us where we are today.

Democrats are finally unified on this issue and you’re stuck on doing things one specific way. Or Bust.

MHBDemon said:
You are describing co-optation and suggesting that I or "Bernie folks" should be happy that democrats latched on to something for political gain while muddying the water on the policy goal.
Click to expand...

You can’t take the W that the party has moved to where Bernie is. You complain that it’s muddying the water because almost everybody is so close to agreement with him that he doesn’t stand out as much.

You’re afraid to name names because it would show how petty you are.

Strickland33 said:
He’s not wrong, Ph.
Click to expand...

PhDeac said:
Depends. Is the goal universal health care? If so, then no.

Is the goal Bernie for President? If so, then yes.
Click to expand...

The goal is Bernie. It’s always been Bernie. I can’t respect that.
 
You’re not about establishing a universal health care system to better our lives.
Click to expand...

Oh fuck off PH.

I said democrats have co-opted medicare for all branding, which you seemingly still don't disagree with. You invented some bullshit "Bernie of bust" attack to discredit my point, that you happen to not disagree with. Why?

I don't believe that the kind of massive social change that we need will happen through electoral politics, but through a mass mobilization of poor and working class people. It's why I am no longer a democrat, and why I joined DSA. The implication that I don't care about healthcare justice, that I haven't had my own personal experiences with private employer healthcare and family/personal health issues, but rather that "the goal is Bernie", is offensive as fuck.

The party HASN'T moved to where Bernie is. That's the entire fucking point of saying democrats have co-opted the branding. I don't believe healthcare is universal if you keep it as a commodity that is only available to those with money. That's why I disagree with you saying that everybody is so close on agreeing on universal healthcare.

There are important differences between the plans. You'd rather ignore those differences, say everyone supports the same thing, so you can justify supporting your bullshit neoliberal mckinsey shill for the ownership class.
 
I don't believe that the kind of massive social change that we need will happen through electoral politics, but through a mass mobilization of poor and working class people.
Click to expand...

Meaning what, exactly?
 
It's ridiculous and disingenuous to see democratic donors attacking Bernie, see the party releasing bad polls to attack the progressive caucus, see candidates fearmongering with RW talking points about socialism, see Biden lying about Med4All on the campaign trail, etc. and then claim the party has moved to where Bernie is.
 
Bernie and Biden are the past. Warren is a much better senator than she would be as POTUS.
 
I think you are correct that the kind of change you seem to seek won't happen through our electoral politics.

I hope you are wrong that we can't do better without some (presumably) damned bloody revolution. Seems something like this is the real goal, not "Bernie"?

Great.
 
ConnorEl said:
Meaning what, exactly?
Click to expand...

Eating the rich? I mean that gets into a much larger discussion on strategy. I should have said "through only electoral politics," because I still vote. But shortening a much longer answer, unionization, direct action, general strikes, nationalizing industry, mutual aid, and i guess building electoral power both inside/outside the corporate democratic establishment.
 
More recently, Cosecha and Jewish groups shutting own ICE facilities, or the anarchist trying to sabotage ICE vehicles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top