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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

TownieDeac said:
I encourage you to listen to the John Kiriakou interview on the Useful Idiots podcast for an alternate perspective on all this. He goes into some detail about what it means to be a literal "asset" of a foreign government and how Clinton knew what she was doing by saying that about Gabbard. Speaking with you rather than rj on this because I think you're capable of critical thought. It's not my favorite podcast, I find the hosts pretty annoying in their own ways, but they have guests like this that aren't given much exposure in other media and it's worth hearing them out.

Kiriakou was charged with breaking the Espionage Act for exposing the torture program in 2012, so he has a unique experience and point of view about the intelligence community and the way the media describes whistleblowers, etc.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...dcast-john-kiriakou-cia-espionage-act-906981/
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Yep, you use "critical thought" so well in your rep response.

But Kiriakou isn't a Federal, elected official who gives credibility to people just by meeting them. To cover for anyone's crimes against humanity is being used by that person/country as an asset for them whether you are paid or not.

My bad, that would take "critical thought".
 
TownieDeac said:
I encourage you to listen to the John Kiriakou interview on the Useful Idiots podcast for an alternate perspective on all this. He goes into some detail about what it means to be a literal "asset" of a foreign government and how Clinton knew what she was doing by saying that about Gabbard. Speaking with you rather than rj on this because I think you're capable of critical thought. It's not my favorite podcast, I find the hosts pretty annoying in their own ways, but they have guests like this that aren't given much exposure in other media and it's worth hearing them out.

Kiriakou was charged with breaking the Espionage Act for exposing the torture program in 2012, so he has a unique experience and point of view about the intelligence community and the way the media describes whistleblowers, etc.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...dcast-john-kiriakou-cia-espionage-act-906981/
Click to expand...

Thanks. I know the difference. I was using the term as I would imagine Hillary will argue the term was used, given the clear context of the quote where she says Tulsi is a favorite of the Russians and they have a bunch of sites and bots supporting her. Point is, this is a sham lawsuit used as a desperate cry for attention.
 
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RJKarl said:
BTW, you can be an "unwitting asset" as well as a paid one.
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Slavoj Žižek said:
It seems clear that - using this terminology you have called forth - we are all "unwitting assets" of the former Soviet Union under global capitalism.
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In fact, does your failed publication enterprise not list the Russian Federation as a member state? Have you examined your own complicity in the system of neoliberalism and global capital and so on and so forth? Who is truly the "unwitting asset" in this case?

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Section2mankini said:
Goalposts, they are a shiftin'. I'm still waiting on evidence that Tulsi is a Russian asset.
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The evidence is her actions giving cover to Putin and Assad. No other other western leader has supported them the way she has. Whether she was paid or just plain stupid is irrelevant. The results are what count. Her actions had the same results. She intentionally helped murderers.

Those actions helped two foreign adversaries. That's what an asset does.

I'm no fan of Hillary, but Gabbard's actions disqualify her from any public office.
 
Posting anyone's job info on the board is supposed to be a permanent ban. At least that's MODs told me would be my punishment.
 
Buttermaker said:
Tulsi billboards have been welcoming motorists to SC on I85 South for months, but I get your point.
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right. I've been seeing Tulsi and Steyer ads for a year on the Greenville affiliate stations we get. Saw one Pete ad. But as soon as that primary is over no Dem presidential candidate will pay any mind to that state until like 2023.
 
BarcaDeac said:
right. I've been seeing Tulsi and Steyer ads for a year on the Greenville affiliate stations we get. Saw one Pete ad. But as soon as that primary is over no Dem presidential candidate will pay any mind to that state until like 2023.
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True but it's also the case of States like Nebraska and Wyoming that Sanders did great in as caucus States. You have to spend your resources where you think you can win.
 
it's just dumb imo to concentrate so much time and money on these early primary states when most won't matter in the general.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Thanks. I know the difference. I was using the term as I would imagine Hillary will argue the term was used, given the clear context of the quote where she says Tulsi is a favorite of the Russians and they have a bunch of sites and bots supporting her. Point is, this is a sham lawsuit used as a desperate cry for attention.
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I called it a sham lawsuit, but the larger point I'm making is that people should be allowed to challenge neolib/neocon orthodoxy about foreign intelligence and foreign affairs. I am no fan of Tulsi and don't find her positions on Russia or Syria persuasive at all, but for a former State Department official to call her a Russian asset is dangerous rhetoric with a chilling effect on free speech.

The reason I posted the link to the interview (and it's kinda long so I'll summarize the points) is to show exactly how dangerous that can be, as regards Kiriakou who the Obama admin had imprisoned for exposing the torture regime in spite of decades of CIA service. He does a good job too delineating that he doesn't believe there's such thing as a Deep State, but instead he says there's a very real federal bureaucracy that lasts longer than any one presidential tenure that pulls strings in the federal government. For that reason, it's important to be specific about what we say when we talk about agents of foreign states within our own government. Beto and Mayor Pete were both clear they disagreed with Clinton about Tulsi working, wittingly or unwittingly, on behalf of Russia's interests.

Trump is definitely a different story, and Kiriakou explains why he thinks Trump committed impeachable offenses but is clear that we as a country treat "whistleblowers" very differently depending on how it supports a given political agenda. I also found it enlightening about the kinds of networks that give Kiriakou a platform--he talks about being treated better on Tucker Carlson's show than on CNN or MSNBC. He's quite clear he's not a republican and never will be and does not agree with Carlson's politics. But if he challenges the way stories get reported or the war/oil state, he gets de-platformed regardless of his personal politics.
 
You know RJ is fired up when he’s dropping so many, “my bad” followed by some rambling nonsense.
 
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