• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

2020 Presidential Election: Biden v. Trump

Nobody is taking joy in bad news. That's just projection because you probably celebrated any bad news that happened when Obama was President.
 
PhDeac said:
Nobody is taking joy in bad news. That's just projection because you probably celebrated any bad news that happened when Obama was President.
Click to expand...

Always best to speak in absolutes. I disagree with you. And your little pop psychology bit about projection is just your usual silliness. Economic good news, including a healthy stock market, was just as beneficial to me during the Obama years as it has been (until recently) in the Trump years.
 
Ok. So can you quote the people you think are taking joy in bad news?
 
This pandemic highlights the ineptitude of trump and the planned govt failure of the gop.
 
oldschooldeac said:
Consequences of the administration? You don't think this global pandemic has anything to do with the unemployment rate? This is just the result of the administration's economic policies? Interesting take. Don't misunderstand, I think Trump's performance in handling the pandemic has been poor. Lots of missteps. I think a more proactive, science-based policy and approach would have provided tremendous benefits for all of us. I don't think that approach would have resulted in a lower unemployment rate. If anything, the unemployment rate would be higher because of a more aggressive approach to social distancing and less emphasis on opening up the economy. But hey, if it make you feel better to pin the unemployment rate solely on the "inept administration" go for it.

As to my larger point, there are myriad legitimate reasons to criticize Trump's performance as President. Point to his poor policies and his personal failings as a reason to vote him out. Run a strong candidate and beat him straight up. Just don't take joy in bad news that is affecting millions of folks. I'm certainly not saying everyone here is doing that but to say that some aren't at least "encouraged" by the bad economic news is being willfully blind. And yes, I think NED is one of those.
Click to expand...

Yes I think the high unemployment rate is a direct result of the pandemic. And yes I think the administrations inept response has exacerbated the problem even further. These two causes aren’t mutually exclusive.

And again please point to where I’m reveling in the economic calamity our country is currently in. It’s fucking sad and I’ve been on this god damn board for the better part of 5 years telling people that electing Trump is a recipe for disaster. He’s a piss poor human being and even more importantly manager of organizations and people. Probably the greatest skill set one needs to coordinate an effective response to one of the most complex challenges our country has faced in a generation.

And he’s failed spectacularly. 75,000+ deaths and still counting. And now we’re reaping the economic consequences of his inconsistent and slow response. The man should be called out for the rest of history.
 
With the countries that have seen much smaller spikes in unemployment (Germany, for example) how much would you attribute to better testing, isolation, contact tracing vs more efficient propping up of businesses to maintain employment levels? Seems like there should be plenty to learn from each country’s response, good and bad.
 
bmoneydeac said:
With the countries that have seen much smaller spikes in unemployment (Germany, for example) how much would you attribute to better testing, isolation, contact tracing vs more efficient propping up of businesses to maintain employment levels? Seems like there should be plenty to learn from each country’s response, good and bad.
Click to expand...

No idea but it’s a really good question.

At the risk of stating the obvious, countries using a holistic approach (like Germany) to deal will likely fare better, both economically and physically.

For some reason (looking at you Donald), people have it in their minds that you can either save the economy or you can save health. What they fail to realize is that the two are inextricably linked. Good health outcomes leads to a smaller economic impact.
 
Conversely shitty health outcomes (like what we see in the US) leads to poorer economic conditions.

You can open everything up all you want but the majority of people won’t want to visit a restaurant when there is a high likelihood of catching a potentially lethal disease. But yes some people will go out, will then spread and/or catch it...which then increases the infection rate...which then further depresses demand for goods and services as people become more concerned.

It’s a vicious cycle and one we won’t get out of until there is a combination of rampant testing, tracing, a vaccine and/or treatment. In the meantime, economic stimulus buys us some time to get those things in order. But we don’t have forever and it’s why the Trump admins response has been such an abject failure.
 
Last edited:
Case in point. Another example of fucked our response has been top down. This story just broke.


Missed Opportunity: US turned down millions of American made N95 masks earlier this year.

It was Jan. 22, a day after the first case of covid-19 was detected in the United States, and orders were pouring into Michael Bowen’s company outside Fort Worth, some from as far away as Hong Kong.
Bowen’s medical supply company, Prestige Ameritech, could ramp up production to make an additional 1.7 million N95 masks a week. He viewed the shrinking domestic production of medical masks as a national security issue, though, and he wanted to give the federal government first dibs.

“We still have four like-new N95 manufacturing lines,” Bowen wrote that day in an email to top administrators in the Department of Health and Human Services. “Reactivating these machines would be very difficult and very expensive but could be achieved in a dire situation.”

But communications over several days with senior agency officials — including Robert Kadlec, the assistant secretary for preparedness and emergency response — left Bowen with the clear impression that there was little immediate interest in his offer.

“I don’t believe we as an government are anywhere near answering those questions for you yet,” Laura Wolf, director of the agency’s Division of Critical Infrastructure Protection, responded that same day.

Bowen persisted.

“We are the last major domestic mask company,” he wrote on Jan. 23. “My phones are ringing now, so I don’t ‘need’ government business. I’m just letting you know that I can help you preserve our infrastructure if things ever get really bad. I’m a patriot first, businessman second.”

In the end, the government did not take Bowen up on his offer. Even today, production lines that could be making more than 7 million masks a month sit dormant.

Bowen’s overture was described briefly in an 89-page whistleblower complaint filed this week by Rick Bright, former director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority. Bright alleges he was retaliated against by Kadlec and other officials — including being reassigned to a lesser post — because he tried to “prioritize science and safety over political expediency.” HHS has disputed his allegations.

Emails show Bright pressed Kadlec and other agency leaders on the issue of mask shortages — and Bowen’s proposal specifically — to no avail. On Jan. 26, Bright wrote to a deputy that Bowen’s warnings “seem to be falling on deaf ears.”
Click to expand...

https://apple.news/ATK0-2qqgRQe-cQhPRxnHAw
 
Anxious About the Virus, Older Voters Grow More Wary of Trump

A recent Morning Consult poll found that Mr. Trump’s approval rating on the handling of the coronavirus was lower with seniors than with any other group other than young voters. And Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., the presumptive Democratic nominee, in recent polls held a 10-point advantage over Mr. Trump among voters who are 65 and older. A poll commissioned by the campaign showed a similar double-digit gap.
Click to expand...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elec...er-voters-grow-more-wary-of-trump/ar-BB13PxZ2
 
Republicans for Biden?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-campaign-is-secretly-building-a-republican-group

"It is literally just forming,” one former top Republican Party official involved with the preliminary discussions told The Daily Beast. “I’ve had several conversations with people who have approached me. It’s going to take off, it’s going to happen. The question is to what degree and form it does,” the source, who was granted anonymity to speak candidly about private discussions, said. "
 
I agree with Joe Walsh?

————


Others are less convinced. Former Rep. Joe Walsh (R-IL), who plans to vote for the Democrat in an expected Trump vs. Biden matchup, said “it’s still a leap,” for a Republican to publicly say they're against Trump. “It still takes some balls, and so I don't think you'll see a huge number of well known names,” he said.

"I don't think there's any freaking way a current elected Republican would ever sign their name on to Republicans for Biden,” Walsh said. “They've demonstrated over the course of the last three years that they're just too damn cowardly to do that."

———-

All that said, this is a huge opportunity for progressive politics. This is the first time in my life that there was any chance of progressives and any Republicans getting on the same page. In this time of crisis, some of the more rational Republicans may be willing to accept progressive ideas to move the country pass this crisis. This is a chance to use parts of the Republican machine to move a progressive agenda. Play it right and the progressive wing even gets a say as to which Republican is acceptable to put on Biden’s cabinet.
 
Last edited:
You say this a lot, but I'm not sure what it looks like in practice. Please use a specific policy item on the progressive agenda to illustrate this, thanks!
 
You don’t know what it looks like in practice to make a case to people with different beliefs on behalf of policies you support?

I’m not sure I understand.
 
PhDeac said:
You don’t know what it looks like in practice to make a case to people with different beliefs on behalf of policies you support?

I’m not sure I understand.
Click to expand...

Give me an example of a progressive policy that Democrats collaborating with a Republican administration could push through. Otherwise, I’m calling bullshit. It’s been months now and you refuse to give an actual example.
 
Why would I give you an example of something I didn’t say?

That’s something I’ve never said.

This is way too common. I say, “ABC” and you “Oh yeah? Well if that’s the case, give me an example of XYZ!”
 
Last edited:
Strickland33 said:
What part of the progressive agenda could be pushed through? Answer the question.
Click to expand...

Anything progressives can make a case for. I don’t know why you’re stuck on “which policy.” It’s not about getting one policy through. It’s about changing the default orientation of US politics from right to left. It’s about changing what people believe is possible and changing what people believe are the basic physics of politics.

The use of the term pushing through reflects a position that progressive politics has to be on the outside pushing through to make any change. There’s no room to understand that progressive politics could be the default.
 
Last edited:
MHB and Strick, what’s your vision for politics? What would things look like if government actually worked?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top