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2020 Presidential Election: Biden v. Trump

I don’t remember the context of the Warren discussion but she was literally a Republican. I’ll concede that “Obama is a war criminal” is a bit more subjective but it’s at least a debate. To clarify my position, i think it’s nearly impossible to be commander and chief of US military and not be a war criminal. If you want to call that shitposting then fine.
 
Strickland33 said:
Either you value grassroots action or you don't.
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You can disagree with/criticize people who are carrying out grassroots action while still acknowledging the value of grassroots action. The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
You can disagree with/criticize people who are carrying out grassroots action while still acknowledging the value of grassroots action. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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You would take somebody who called Joe Biden evil and then said he was going to vote for him would appreciate that fact.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
You can disagree with/criticize people who are carrying out grassroots action while still acknowledging the value of grassroots action. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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Are you reading Ph’s posts? I’m just asking for a little consistency and historical accuracy since the events we’re talking about aren’t even that old.
 
ChrisL68 said:
You would take somebody who called Joe Biden evil and then said he was going to vote for him would appreciate that fact.
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Again, you probably don’t know many people whose lives were destroyed by the 94 crime bill, do you?
 
Strickland33 said:
Are you reading Ph’s posts? I’m just asking for a little consistency and historical accuracy since the events we’re talking about aren’t even that old.
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I'm reading both of your posts and from an outside observer you are way too worked up and you're pretty transparently picking fights with him.
 
He acknowledged the value of grassroots action, and your response was "what the hell, didn't you just criticize a BLM activist and a DSA activist? How can you value grassroots action if you criticize people carrying out grassroots action?"
 
BeachBumDeac said:
He acknowledged the value of grassroots action, and your response was "what the hell, didn't you just criticize a BLM activist and a DSA activist? How can you value grassroots action if you criticize people carrying out grassroots action?"
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I mean, if you're just gonna swoop in and not pay attention to the overall conversation then it's easy to have that reaction.

Ph posts a lot on this board, so I feel like I know his positions pretty well at this point. He values grassroots action to the extent that it happens within the electoral system, but evidently considers it to be shit stirring when it happens outside of the electoral system. But a lot of really important progressive change has happened from outside of the political system. The Civil Rights Movement, for example, was not an electoral movement. Neither was the feminist movement, the Chicano Rights movement, much of the labor movement (e.g., Justice for Janitors in 2006), the immigrants rights movement, and recent movements like Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter, that have had pretty expansive impacts on electoral politics from outside of the system. If you're going to engage with my posts, then engage with my posts.

ETA: Do you not understand the distinction I'm making in my post between electoral and non-electoral forms of grassroots action? I put each point in a separate paragraph, man.
 
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BeachBumDeac said:
I'm reading both of your posts and from an outside observer you are way too worked up and you're pretty transparently picking fights with him.
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I mean, you do you. I'm not really that worked up about it; I'm just being honest. Ph's posting lately has been a series of way-over-the-line interactions with almost every progressive poster on this board and I'm personally just sick of it. If it was coming from somebody else, then I wouldn't care that much. But this somewhat recent development just really sucks and has basically killed any kind of discourse on the Tunnels.
 
I’ve definitely clashed with Ph several times over the years (just deleted some old argumentative PMs between us when I played mafia recently and my inbox was full) but I just don’t see what you’re describing. I think the sniping goes both ways (especially between MHB and ChrisL) but the volume seems like more on your end.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Our company was actually looking at this and considering it but we decided that we couldn't answer that question yes truthfully.
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BeachBumDeac said:
I’ve definitely clashed with Ph several times over the years (just deleted some old argumentative PMs between us when I played mafia recently and my inbox was full) but I just don’t see what you’re describing. I think the sniping goes both ways (especially between MHB and ChrisL) but the volume seems like more on your end.
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Aight. I'm not going to concede the point, but I guess I'll just shut up. In general, though, it's pretty sad how a few people have basically made it impossible to have even a slightly dissenting view on literally any political topic. You can even make a new thread for the expressed purpose of having discourse that was discouraged on another thread and the same three of four posters will run you off the new thread.
 
Good posts, BBD.

I’m making a simple point that grassroots action is good but it’s not sufficient to topple the two party system. Grassroots action within a party is what it will take to change a party and make real change. We have the recent examples of AstroTurf movements on the right like the Moral Majority and Tea Party and progressive gains on the left over the 2018 cycle.
 
Strickland33 said:
Aight. I'm not going to concede the point, but I guess I'll just shut up. In general, though, it's pretty sad how a few people have basically made it impossible to have even a slightly dissenting view on literally any political topic. You can even make a new thread for the expressed purpose of having discourse that was discouraged on another thread and the same three of four posters will run you off the new thread.
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This sounds like Wrangor complaining about the liberals on the Tunnels running off all the conservatives.

Can you point to some threads where someone has run you off? I really don't see people with dissenting views getting shouted down here, except for people like Brad and sailor where it's well deserved
 
Strickland33 said:
Aight. I'm not going to concede the point, but I guess I'll just shut up. In general, though, it's pretty sad how a few people have basically made it impossible to have even a slightly dissenting view on literally any political topic. You can even make a new thread for the expressed purpose of having discourse that was discouraged on another thread and the same three of four posters will run you off the new thread.
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I’m not sure what this is referring to. We have a specific thread for MBH, TheReff, MDMH, Angus, sailor, Townie, etc to engage in Biden bashing. Was anybody run off that thread to force them to post on this thread devoted to presidential election polls and news?
 
BeachBumDeac said:
This sounds like Wrangor complaining about the liberals on the Tunnels running off all the conservatives.

Can you point to some threads where someone has run you off? I really don't see people with dissenting views getting shouted down here, except for people like Brad and sailor where it's well deserved
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Just stick around for awhile, man, instead of these drive-by Ph defender posts. I’m not going to waste my time trying to explain this shit anymore. It’s obviously happening and it’s just becoming ridiculous. Between the utterly shameful Tara Reade discourse, anti-semitism concern trolling, and this partisan flattening of discourse about electoral politics, I don’t think I really want to talk about politics in this community anymore.
 
Strickland33 said:
Again, you probably don’t know many people whose lives were destroyed by the 94 crime bill, do you?
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Do you know several people who have served federal prison sentences? This bill was just a reflection of the times as evidenced by the fact that even a socialist Like Bernie Sanders voted for it.
 
Chris, don't bother them with facts. Bernie gets a pass for voting for the bill just like they gave passes for each time he voted with the NRA in 90s&00s. They have no problem with Bernie voting to put all gun manufacturers about civil law multiple times.
 
“I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill, but one part of it that I vigorously support is the Violence Against Women Act. We urgently need the $1.8 billion in this bill to combat the epidemic of violence against women on the streets and in the homes of America.

It is my firm belief that clearly there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.

But it is also my view that through the neglect of our government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming today tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And, Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world — and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country — and all of the executions … in the world will not make that situation right.

We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.“

-not the guy who won the nomination
 
“The consensus is A), we must take back the streets. It doesn't matter whether or not the person that is accosting your son or daughter or my son or daughter, my wife, your husband, my mother, your parents, it doesn't matter whether or not they were deprived as a youth. It doesn't matter whether or not they had no background that enabled them to become socialized into the fabric of society. It doesn't matter whether or not they're the victims of society. The end result is they're about to knock my mother on the head with a lead pipe, shoot my sister, beat up my wife, take on my sons.”

-the guy who won the nomination
 
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