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A little trip down memory lane courtesy of NC State...

RChildress107 said:
His record after January 15 was 23-23. Not great but any wake fan would probably take that right now over the next three years.
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Understatement of the year. i'm sure the sunshine brigade are excited that the January BC game has now been shifted to a projected win... Nice to have one of those to look forward to after Dec. 31st
 
vtwhat etc said:
Wow. Hard to believe anybody would still have that mentality about the whole thing.... You loons still arguing the 'rebuilding' line about what went into Wellman's hiring decision is close to insanity.

You seem to ignore the fact that [Redacted] jumped ship in a (widely-reported) disgraceful way after coaching his only decent teams at AF (who by the way, didn't win a single conference or ncaat game) for 2 years to seek greener pastures. You do not seem to realize that in the year before Wellman hired him, Bz had a player that he brought on board at Colorado arrested on felony charges for trying to rob the souvenir stand.

[Redacted] is not (and never has been) a beacon for winning or for 'culture'. Chill43's post is likely spot on & the only rational explanation for why Wellman had to pull out his old phone-book in a pinch without doing any due-diligence.
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Wellman panicked after 2-3 people turned him down and went to his back-up, which, for some unclear reason, was [Redacted] instead of one of the legions of more exciting, more promising, lower risk and/or higher reward candidates. Wellman did a very bad job with that transition. No other real explanation needed, especially not one that suggests Wake was anything but the most attractive open job that off season (well, Oregon might have an argument, but only because of Phil Knight's money).
 
ChrisL68 said:
Some people just refuse to admit they were wrong and will create rationalization after rationalization. To suggest that hiring Dino as an interim coach was a worse move than hiring [Redacted] or that the program was in such bad shape that we had to hire [Redacted] are just completely absurd positions.

We had a borderline top 10 recruiting class and multiple rotation players from a tourney team returning. That's a no win spiraling downward job? Laughable.

DCDeac is completely wrong about this, but at least he has dropped his criticism about not playing Ty Walker more.
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It's funny to read poster after poster continue to equate any criticism of Dino as support for [Redacted]. Because that is the only way to defend Dino's one postseason victory - by comparing him to [Redacted]. I'm absolutely not wrong that keeping Dino after his first year was the mistake that started this whole debacle. I don't understand how any reasonable person can disagree with that. We had proven talent and did jack with it outside of some nice regular season wins - not a "borderline top 10 recruiting class" coming in (which proved to be a bullshit ranking btw), but proven talent that's now in the league and we completely wasted it. Maybe nobody else remembers watching those teams crumble down the stretch or heading to the Cleveland State game as the media's favorite to be upset and watching it not only happen - but happen without a fight, but I certainly do.

I also know that the buddy hire story pushed here is a lie, because during the hiring process a family member was representing one of our targets and I got to hear part of the feedback about why there was no interest. We didn't return a single starter after the Kentucky debacle, so we were going to struggle even if the incoming class did work out. We were a job clearly on the way down. In no way do I think [Redacted] was the right hire or that he was the best we could get. I just know why we didn't get one of our far better targets, and I can only assume that Wellman is not a complete idiot and other high profile targets declined as well for similar reasons. We could have kept Dino and kicked the can down the road another year -although with his affair and the Woods arrest and blowjob drama he wouldn't have made it for more than that one season anyway and then we would have been even more screwed in our coaching search. Wellman took a flier and heading into year 3 it's a complete miss. We'd never be in that position if he'd recognized Dino as the interim coach that he was and sold Wake at it's high.

Also love that little dig from clueless Chris. I didn't drop that criticism. Was Dino a coach or a buddy to the players? He "tried" to redshirt him but couldn't? Ty wouldn't let him? That's not being a coach. He should have redshirted the kid or tried to develop him. Instead he burns his shirt for 3 minutes of playing time in the first game of the season, then benches him for 20 straight games at the start of actual league play.

If you can't even criticize Dino for his handling of Ty Walker's freshman year, which both Ty and Dino would later regret and admit to mishandling, then that should tell you something.
 
nice post dc. The right thing was done when we fired dino, he was a joke and was in way over his head. our top targets turned us down and wellman went with a guy he knew and trusted to come in and clean some things up. He will be let go after this year or the next and we will move on to someone who can really win games here. it is what it is people, nothing we can do about it but support the players we have and wait. a lot of shit has happened to the program since 07 you know. we will be back agian.
 
childressfor3 said:
nice post dc. The right thing was done when we fired dino, he was a joke and was in way over his head. our top targets turned us down and wellman went with a guy he knew and trusted to come in and clean some things up. He will be let go after this year or the next and we will move on to someone who can really win games here. it is what it is people, nothing we can do about it but support the players we have and wait. a lot of shit has happened to the program since 07 you know. we will be back agian.
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Okay I'll bite. How will we magically get that coach who can "really win games" now when the program is in much worse (read: catastrophic) shape?
 
DCDeac said:
It's funny to read poster after poster continue to equate any criticism of Dino as support for [Redacted]. Because that is the only way to defend Dino's one postseason victory - by comparing him to [Redacted]. I'm absolutely not wrong that keeping Dino after his first year was the mistake that started this whole debacle. I don't understand how any reasonable person can disagree with that. We had proven talent and did jack with it outside of some nice regular season wins - not a "borderline top 10 recruiting class" coming in (which proved to be a bullshit ranking btw), but proven talent that's now in the league and we completely wasted it. Maybe nobody else remembers watching those teams crumble down the stretch or heading to the Cleveland State game as the media's favorite to be upset and watching it not only happen - but happen without a fight, but I certainly do.
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Lot's of good teams lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament, but no one's trying to defend losing to Cleveland State, it was a terrible loss and yet Dino wasn't fired then. I think it's an idiotic view point to say Dino should have been fired after his first season, since we pretty much played to expectations that season. Also it's ridiculous to blame that 1st season non-firing as the reason behind our current situation. I'm certainly not going to write off that recruiting class because they didn't play well under [Redacted]. I don't know what your problem is in comparing our last coach to his replacement, that's a perfectly logical comparison. This isn't a Joe Paterno situation, Dino was fired for on court results. Why would we not judge the wisdom of the change based on the success of his replacement? That was the whole goddamned point of the change. The only points that you've ever made about this topic is that you didn't like Dino, and he lost post season games. We get it. If our situation was so bad with Dino that the best coach we could get was [Redacted], how the hell can we make a change now? If we fire [Redacted] and the only willing replacement is a child molesting horse, I guess you're all in for that decision as well? Since firing the current coach is completely separate from hiring a new coach, even though there is no better alternative.
 
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dino was fired because he brought in a bunch of shit heads and they were embarrasing the university, lets be real here.
 
DCDeac said:
It's funny to read poster after poster continue to equate any criticism of Dino as support for [Redacted]. Because that is the only way to defend Dino's one postseason victory - by comparing him to [Redacted]. I'm absolutely not wrong that keeping Dino after his first year was the mistake that started this whole debacle. I don't understand how any reasonable person can disagree with that. We had proven talent and did jack with it outside of some nice regular season wins - not a "borderline top 10 recruiting class" coming in (which proved to be a bullshit ranking btw), but proven talent that's now in the league and we completely wasted it. Maybe nobody else remembers watching those teams crumble down the stretch or heading to the Cleveland State game as the media's favorite to be upset and watching it not only happen - but happen without a fight, but I certainly do.

I also know that the buddy hire story pushed here is a lie, beicause during the hiring process a family member was representing one of our targets and I got to hear part of the feedback about why there was no interest. We didn't return a single starter after the Kentucky debacle, so we were going to struggle even if the incoming class did work out. We were a job clearly on the way down. In no way do I think [Redacted] was the right hire or that he was the best we could get. I just know why we didn't get one of our far better targets, and I can only assume that Wellman is not a complete idiot and other high profile targets declined as well for similar reasons. We could have kept Dino and kicked the can down the road another year -although with his affair and the Woods arrest and blowjob drama he wouldn't have made it for more than that one season anyway and then we would have been even more screwed in our coaching search. Wellman took a flier and heading into year 3 it's a complete miss. We'd never be in that position if he'd recognized Dino as the interim coach that he was and sold Wake at it's high.

Also love that little dig from clueless Chris. I didn't drop that criticism. Was Dino a coach or a buddy to the players? He "tried" to redshirt him but couldn't? Ty wouldn't let him? That's not being a coach. He should have redshirted the kid or tried to develop him. Instead he burns his shirt for 3 minutes of playing time in the first game of the season, then benches him for 20 straight games at the start of actual league play.

If you can't even criticize Dino for his handling of Ty Walker's freshman year, which both Ty and Dino would later regret and admit to mishandling, then that should tell you something.
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Wake had 8 top 100 RSCI players on the roster for the 2010-2011 season when Dino got fired. If the team was clearly anything it was a one year rebuilding project with the pieces to make it happen.

Also funny to see you blast Dino for his handling of Ty (which was poor but overstated) and then turn around and say our top 10 recruiting class didn't deserve their ranking as if [Redacted]'s handling of that class (worse and understated) had nothing to do with it
 
WRS said:
Okay I'll bite. How will we magically get that coach who can "really win games" now when the program is in much worse (read: catastrophic) shape?
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it happened after staak, and it will happen again.
 
the real mistake looking back was not going bringing in a whole new staff after skip died to save a class that was all hype and really didnt do shit.
 
childressfor3 said:
dino was fired because he brought in a bunch of shit heads and they were embarrasing the university, lets be real here.
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Who? Teague/Clark or Tony Woods? It's hilarious that when we bring up how good those players were they were Skips recruits given to Dino, yet when they fucked up they were Dino's recruits. Get out of here with that BS.
 
RChildress107 said:
Wake had 8 top 100 RSCI players on the roster for the 2010-2011 season when Dino got fired. If the team was clearly anything it was a one year rebuilding project with the pieces to make it happen.

Also funny to see you blast Dino for his handling of Ty (which was poor but overstated) and then turn around and say our top 10 recruiting class didn't deserve their ranking as if [Redacted]'s handling of that class (worse and understated) had nothing to do with it
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Expecting logic out of DCDeac on this issue is pointless. On this issue, he is an idiot.

Apparently every coach in America knew our top 10 class was overrated and that we had a huge rebuilding project even though they were all recruited by other major schools and the ones that have transferred have all gone to primarily major programs as good as if not better than ours.

I wish Ty Walker would have redshirted, but he was still a marginal college player after 4 years. Pretty funny that you endlessly complained about him not getting more minutes when he was our 4th best center when he couldn't even beat out a freshman Carson for a starting spot as a junior.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Expecting logic out of DCDeac on this issue is pointless.

Apparently every coach in America knew our top 10 class was overrated and that we had a huge rebuillding project even though they were all recruited by other major schools and the ones that have transferred have all gone to programs as good as if not better than ours.
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It could be that we scared off potential coaches by firing a coach coming off a 20 win season with a tournament win. That doesn't reflect very realistic standards. Kentucky at least waited until Billy Gillespie missed the tournament before they fired him.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
It could be that we scared off potential coaches by firing a coach coming off a 20 win season with a tournament win. That doesn't reflect very realistic standards. Kentucky at least waited until Billy Gillespie missed the tournament before they fired him.
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Much more likely than this post hoc rationalization that this was some sort of epic rebuilding project that completely flies in the face of the facts.
 
childressfor3 said:
dino was fired because he brought in a bunch of shit heads and they were embarrasing the university, lets be real here.
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Oh you mean all that stuff that happened/came to light after Dino was fired. Who knew Wellman could see the future? He must have hired [Redacted] so that other sorcerers wouldn't catch on to his powers.
 
childressfor3 said:
dino was fired because he brought in a bunch of shit heads and they were embarrasing the university, lets be real here.
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How many times does it have to be pointed out that the "culture" excuse came about well after the hiring, and after Wellman realized how poorly things were going? As if the timing of the culture argument, and the lack of any mention of it during the actual hiring/firing process wasn't enough, we have multiple insiders who have confirmed just how much bullshit it is.

It's funny, none of those guys seemed to embarrass the University until Bzz started his "culture change" war in an attempt to force them out.
 
RacerDeac said:
How many times does it have to be pointed out that the "culture" excuse came about well after the hiring, and after Wellman realized how poorly things were going? As if the timing of the culture argument, and the lack of any mention of it during the actual hiring/firing process wasn't enough, we have multiple insiders who have confirmed just how much bullshit it is.

It's funny, none of those guys seemed to embarrass the University until Bzz started his "culture change" war in an attempt to force them out.
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To be fair, Tony Woods stepped on a crack and broke his baby mama's back during Dino's tenure. If any of that culture stuff is true, it was probably the Teague/Clark-Bandgirl situation that may have gotten Dino fired.
 
RChildress107 said:
Oh you mean all that stuff that happened/came to light after Dino was fired. Who knew Wellman could see the future? He must have hired [Redacted] so that other sorcerers wouldn't catch on to his powers.
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Particulary when some of the main instigators (JT, Tabb) were still in HS when the change was made.
 
RChildress107 said:
Wake had 8 top 100 RSCI players on the roster for the 2010-2011 season when Dino got fired. If the team was clearly anything it was a one year rebuilding project with the pieces to make it happen.

Also funny to see you blast Dino for his handling of Ty (which was poor but overstated) and then turn around and say our top 10 recruiting class didn't deserve their ranking as if [Redacted]'s handling of that class (worse and understated) had nothing to do with it
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Completely agree - zero returning starters with some hyped freshmen. But when you take a coaching position and replace the entire staff you can never count on recruits staying. Coaches that wanted their own staff were more hesitant to take the job. And that fact I REALLY hold against Wellman because I think he's made that mistake twice. Once by promoting Dino to save our recruiting class, and once when hiring [Redacted] because he knew he could get him and keep Battle/Rusty to keep our recruits. But yeah, I don't excuse Ty in the least for his attitude and damage he caused Wake, and I don't excuse [Redacted]'s crap handling of Dino's recruits even though I really hated JTT and Ari's attitude/style.

But for about the 10th time, a criticism of Dino is not a vote in favor of [Redacted]. You actually can criticize Dino for Ty and criticize [Redacted] handling Carson as well. I will say whether Ty was overrated or not has nothing to do with whether Dino handled his freshman year well. People act like you have to declare a redshirt. You don't. You just don't play the kid. He basically redshirted him without getting the benefit of redshirting because Ty ordered him to.

Anyway, enough of this tired stuff. Dino is a good dude and was a great assistant coach and recruiter for Skip. He could make a great head coach some day and I hope he gets his shot and works his way up to a position like Wake again. I hope now that [Redacted] has "his guys" we are all shocked by a great year this year.

The reality is we will probably struggle and we'll probably fire [Redacted], and it'll be in Wellman's hands again to right the ship - if he makes it that long.
 
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