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A question. (For those on the right.)

Isn't there a famous quote about DirecTV being the opiate of the masses?
 
Wrangor said:
I have avoided this thread at all costs because it was born in sarcasm, and generated a very small amount of thoughtful discourse...but this is actually a very good question. What is our intent in helping the poorest among us? It is a very complicated question.

You mention TVs in jest, but that is a real issue. We have people who are completely supported by the government that can't afford to send their kids to college, that waste $130/month on Direct TV. This is a symptom of the problem. The problem is that EVERYONE (and I mean all economic classes) expects to live the American dream RIGHT NOW. If we see our neighbor with something we are 'owed' the same thing. It is not fair for my neighbor to be able to have something that I cannot. This was always the one area that BKF and I agreed upon (just verbalizing that probably earns me some negrep) but we have a sickness in this society. Every level of our economy wants more and more and more. The problem is that other than the top 5% nobody can afford it.

So what happens? The middle class goes in debt, the poor spend money intended to help them survive on entertainment expenses and the all the while the rich get richer and richer. All levels are involved and all are effected. All levels are being unwise in my opinion. So when you ask 'what is an acceptable standard of living' that is a pretty difficult question.

My personal opinion is that we should provide enough food and shelter in order to prevent people from starving, but not so much in which they are able to survive long term observing the status quo. I think we need to increase exit opportunities for the next generation with severe and radical changes to the way we educate in lower income populations. We need more jobs, but the poor aren't qualified for any jobs even if they were present so that wouldn't make a huge impact. The kids graduating from the public schools in impoverished schools often have a difficult time reading and doing simple math. What possible job could they fill outside of flipping burgers?

I honestly believe we could restructure our aid system to provide more motivation (we have discussed tying some sort of performance/work aspect to the welfare system...) but the most important long term change we can make is overhaul the educational system in this country. Personally I would disassociate the federal government with all public schooling and allow the states to have full autonomy. I would have the fed pour money in, but take their hands off the reins. We need targeted local efforts to combat each situation. The solution to Greenwood, MS is not the solution to the Bronx. As I have discussed, we have a massive teen pregnancy issue in the Delta. This effects our schooling and takes away possible life opportunities for a large portion of the poor in our area. Large scale solutions don't work in these sort of environments. States are more self interested in provided a solid public education than the federal government could ever be.

Anyway - that is my diatribe and attempt to have thoughtful discussion. Provide food and shelter for the poor but tie it to some sort of public work/service. Throw a ton of effort/brainpower/money into revamping our educational system.
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+1

I would even place more power to the local districts than the state.
 
Milhouse said:
i know one thing. i'm about to use the term "bootstraps" on every thread wrangor posts on. maybe multiple times.
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Haha. We will see if you have the personal will power to muster up such an effort. The govt ain't gonna do it for you Millhouse.
 
This fucking thread. The headwind faced by the American poor is 10 times the headwind faced by the upper middle class and wealthy who spewing their load on this thread and who like to pretend that they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to get where they are, and 10 times that of their parents who they like to pretend did as well. You think you are getting one over but you sound ridiculous
 
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jhmd2000 said:
Wrangor,

I know that you are a Southern evangelical and therefore stupid, so let me try to explain the brilliance of the one-size-fits-all "bootstraps!" rejoinder in simple terms that even you will understand. You may find yourself in a situation where the other person is arguing that no sustainable anti-poverty initiatives will succeed unless they are based in the threshold requirements of personal responsibility, or other similarly antiquated notions. People that argue such things are of the mistaken belief that the poor are our equals or at least could provide for themselves without our benevolent and totally not patronizing intervention. Pay them no mind. These naieve dupes of the Koch brothers don't understand how inferior poor people are and how ill-fitting the concepts of work, education and personal accountability that have been indispensable to our own personal and professional successes (and that of everyone in our extended families and friends) are to the inferior and helpless poorer classes. It's sad that they are so naeive as to think the poor could survive without our intervention. Work? Independence? Upward mobility? Why, they just wouldn't suit, you see?

Only when our friends on the right attain the more nuanced understandings of our condesce...., er-compassion, will they understand that you must first embrace the inferiority of another man before true compassion towards him can begin. A wise man once said, "You give respect by showing no respect at all."
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Pretty good, but not great.
 
When jhmd and pourman and their jack off banking buddies start handing out business loans in the American ghetto, or hiring up Americans out of the ghetto and paying them a decent wage then I will buy jhmd's horseshit about "believing in them as equals". Until then it is as laughable as anything ever posted on this forum, except for maybe how much jhmd has convinced even himself.
 
So let's review the facts:

Since Johnson, who has enjoyed the most financial growth and benefitted the most financially? The wealthy

Since Johnson, who has complained the loudest about the poor mooching off of them? The wealthy

Since Johnson, who has made most of the labor decisions in the private sector? The wealthy

Since Johnson, who has controlled policy and legislation more through legalized bribery in the form of political campaign contributions? The wealthy.

So I am supposed to believe that Americas wealthy (and largely republican) base is who really cares about the poor, and the middle and lower middle class liberals who clamor for their help think they are inferior?

Fuck you
 
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Since Johnson who has fucked more and used less birth control? The unwed welfare mother
 
bootstraps vs bleeding hearts in the never ending thread.
 
WakeandBake said:
So let's review the facts:

Since Johnson, who has enjoyed the most financial growth and benefitted the most financially? The wealthy

Since Johnson, who has complained the loudest about the poor mooching off of them? The wealthy

Since Johnson, who has made most of the labor decisions in the private sector? The wealthy

Since Johnson, who has controlled policy and legislation more through legalized bribery in the form of political campaign contributions? The wealthy.

So I am supposed to believe that Americas wealthy (and largely republican) base is who really cares about the poor, and the middle and lower middle class liberals who clamor for their help think they are inferior?

Fuck you
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you just don't understand bootstraps
 
I don't hear any trickling. I do hear a giant sucking sound though.

I'm no bleeding heart, I'm a realist. But by all means keep simultaneously fucking the poor and blamin them for being fucked. I mean, it's working right?
 
You don't hear any trickling? But the fact is that capitalism and entrepreneurism is the greatest force the world has ever known for lifting people out of poverty. And no where has that been more on display than in your own country. Party on, comrade.
 
DeacMan said:
You don't hear any trickling? But the fact is that capitalism and entrepreneurism is the greatest force the world has ever known for lifting people out of poverty. And no where has that been more on display than in your own country. Party on, comrade.
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Let me know when 12 million people leave our country because there isn't any opportunity here.
 
DeacMan said:
You don't hear any trickling? But the fact is that capitalism and entrepreneurism is the greatest force the world has ever known for lifting people out of poverty. And no where has that been more on display than in your own country. Party on, comrade.
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jhmd2000 said:
Let me know when 12 million people leave our country because there isn't any opportunity here.
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A balance between capitalism and the welfare state seems to be pretty effective. I think we can all agree on that.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
A balance between capitalism and the welfare state seems to be pretty effective. I think we can all agree on that.
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Yep. And i would rather be poor in a wealthy country than poor in a poor country.
 
The best we can strive for is Not Mexico. Got it.

So DeacMan, is your contention that America hasn't let capitalism work enough so it can lift more people out of poverty?
 
PhDeac said:
The best we can strive for is Not Mexico. Got it.

So DeacMan, is your contention that America hasn't let capitalism work enough so it can lift more people out of poverty?
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I'd rather be in Mexico than Detroit. Better weather.
 
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