Are Clawson and Ed Hardin right? Wake Football needs ASU series?

[RedSoxFaithful]

one of the first basketball games I went to at wake, our student section chanted "safety school" at the visiting high point student section

and let me tell you, app state is no high point

 

[DeacDaddy]

WFU has been avoiding the ghost of App State for years. That's the old Wake. Those who are afraid to play App are still afraid of silly ghosts. We shouldn't hesitate to take on anyone, especially an FBS brother just up the road, whose players and coaches used to take football more seriously than we do but now cannot make that claim. We will play them; we will beat them; the exorcism will finally be complete.

 

[Dekin]

Always fun to object to playing App or a FCS teams or whomever, but here are the realities:

- WF has to play 4 OOC games
- WF must play at least one OOC game against a Power V school
- Every FBS team (but 3 - ND, USC and UCLA) plays FCS teams (that includes Bama, FSU, Clemson, tOSU); those games serve specific purposes (guaranteed home game, break in a brutal 3 month stretch, likely win); WF is going to play FCS teams get over it;
- FBS Football is business, and selling tickets matters (and helps the program and the Athletic Department)
- The rules have changed: MOST FBS SCHOOLS LIKE APP INSIST ON HOME AND HOME's (so saying "I'm OK with playing App, but only at Groves" just is not reality; Miami played at App last year; UNC played at ODU last week; Ok State played at South Alabama this year)

Given those realities, anyone claiming WF shouldn't play App or play home and homes with App, who do you want WF to play?

Given that WF is in the same division as Clemson, FSU, L'ville, WF can't schedule more than two OOC games against other Power V schools. Just not in WF's interest to over-schedule; it's an quick path to disappointing seasons.

IMO, WF gets close to nothing playing against remote FBS schools that have no connection to WF (e.g., Utah State, UL-Monroe).

So, that doesn't leave a ton of alternatives. IMO, in a perfect world, WF OOC schedule should look like this:

1. A home FCS game (preferably against a NC/VA/SC team; the closer to W-S, the better)
2. A home and home against a reasonably high profile Power V team (ND, any SEC team, almost any Big 10 team)
3. Home and home or 3 for 2 against a regional FBS team (App, ECU, ODU, maybe Charlotte, Coastal)
4. Another FBS opponent that WF should beat more than it loses to (Army, Navy, Marshall, Rice, UCONN or another random American Conference or Sun Belt team - the closer the better)

Very logical, sensible post.

Now - lets go and make sure we win the game

 

[TheReff]

We definitely need this series. Why play series from the same exact conference--UL Monroe--in front of 500 of their fans and with 12,500 actual fans in the stands when we can have rivalry games against D1 teams from in-state that will generate interest and put butts in chairs! Plus we can go there instead of Monroe, LA or Logan, UT [I went there for that game and made it into a Yellowstone trip], but when we do those we only take 300. So yes, sign up for App St or ECU every year home & away.

 

[Biff Tannen]

 

[BillBrasky]

Biff's inferiority complex with second tier state schools is perplexing

 

[Biff Tannen]

Biff's inferiority complex with second tier state schools is perplexing

Inferiorty ? Wrong word professor.

 

[Fusiondad10]

Biff, your opinion counts as much as mine, but I'm not sure there's a reasonable argument you can make to defend denigrating another school outside of athletics only because you are a Wake Forest fan or alumnus. No high horse here, just my opinion and a hope that our discussions will be about sports.

 

[CantStandYa]

But this would true of a game against many, many non power 5 teams. So that factor isn't a reason not to play App unless you are going to say we shouldn't play any of those teams that we should beat - which makes no sense. The advantage of playing App is that it is close, our fans can drive, it creates an in-state, non-conference rival, provides us exposure in another area of the state, creates a lot of excitement around the game which creates a great atmosphere for our kids to play in. The disadvantage is that if we lose we have to hear it for a year from a bunch of country bumpkins who live nearby. So be it.

I was against the game when they were FCS but it makes a lot more sense now. It seems like we should get 2/1 at home but whatever. And I don't think we should play them everywhere but switch it up with other local teams like ECO, Coastal, Charlotte, or whatever.

The epitome of LOWF. If we're cultivating App State as a rival, our program is in trouble.

It made sense for us to book a long-term series with Vandy, just like it did for us to book a long-term series with Xavier in basketball (even beyond the Prosser connection). Hopefully, the App State scheduling is a limited transgression on the way to bigger and better things.

Also, the disadvantages are much greater than shit-talking from backwoods rubes.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Biff, your opinion counts as much as mine, but I'm not sure there's a reasonable argument you can make to defend denigrating another school outside of athletics only because you are a Wake Forest fan or alumnus. No high horse here, just my opinion and a hope that our discussions will be about sports.

Look, I'm sure App State is a great school with even better people. But there's no way in hell we should be playing them in football, especially up there in the mountains.

 

[Milhouse]

one of the first basketball games I went to at wake, our student section chanted "safety school" at the visiting high point student section

and let me tell you, app state is no high point

app state is a better school than high point

 

[Louis Gossett Jr]

They are both pretty shitty schools but one you aren't paying crazy private school tuition at so I guess point App.

 

[mebanedeac]

it really has nothing to do with the quality of education provided at App. State. Much less does have anything whatsoever to do with the quality of people who belong to that community. It is all about the conference connections that exist relative to the two schools. For as long as I can remember Wake has been struggling to gain respect in the ACC. Losing to a school from a lesser conference only makes that more difficult. If we lose to a SEC or Big10 school it impacts our image less. Whereas winning against the SEC or Big10 helps us in a way that winning against the Sun Belt does not. App.State may be a better team than Vandy but their conference affiliation and the over-all quality of their schedule is less. And that matters in the larger scheme of things.

 

[jhmd2000]

Why are they wrong?

I'm pretty excited for this game. We can schedule teams that we can lose to like Utah State or ULM, or we can schedule teams that we can lose to like App State.

The latter provides fans with a great chance to travel and see their team play, while also bantering with co-workers, former high school classmates, etc.

I love the mentality of playing anybody anywhere.

People just like to complain about everything. When we schedule too easy people bitch, when we schedule too hard people bitch.

Just play games that fans like to see that we also have a good chance of winning---this is one of those games, and I also believe we have a good amount to gain on the recruiting trail if we go to Boone and take care of business.

100% correct.

 

[Pilchard]

it really has nothing to do with the quality of education provided at App. State. Much less does have anything whatsoever to do with the quality of people who belong to that community. It is all about the conference connections that exist relative to the two schools. For as long as I can remember Wake has been struggling to gain respect in the ACC. Losing to a school from a lesser conference only makes that more difficult. If we lose to a SEC or Big10 school it impacts our image less. Whereas winning against the SEC or Big10 helps us in a way that winning against the Sun Belt does not. App.State may be a better team than Vandy but their conference affiliation and the over-all quality of their schedule is less. And that matters in the larger scheme of things.

Don't lose the game.

You can't schedule games being afraid to lose.

BTW, has #8 Michigan recovered from losing to App? FWIW, in the last five years, VT lost to in-state FCS school James Madison. Did that loss have any long term impact on VT football? South Alabama beat Miss. State last year. Now, after MSU crushed LSU, Dan Mullen is the hottest coach in the country. Results are ephemeral.

In the end, a loss would only hurt WF fans self-perception (no one is more LOWF than our own fanbase) of the FB program. No one else in the conference will GAF about the WF/App result by Monday.

 

[BarcaDeac]

I don't mind playing FCS teams I just hate doing so on the opening Thursday. It just doesn't have the opening weekend feel. You have everyone at work talking about who their team is playing that weekend and then they'll ask who Wake is playing and it's like oh we played Presbyterian last night. Lame.

 

[TheReff]

They are both pretty shitty schools but one you aren't paying crazy private school tuition at so I guess point App.

App St is a damn fine school and does not have the holier than thou attitude of many of the Wake Forest elite who think you have to charge $68,000 to get a quality education. There are many fine state institutions in every state and many parents are turning to them with what the private schools are charging. Go out here and pay 4-5 years of these prices we charge on a normal salary for your kid's education then come back & talk. I myself was just fine letting my kids both go in state & out of state to great state schools and both getting great jobs they both love. And they don't have to deal with Melissa Harris-Perry either who is now costing Wake Forest millions from where people are withdrawing from their prior Wake Will campaign gift pledges and the other liberal attitudes of this place.

 

[wfu22fan]

Not saying that I'm younger than most people on here but.......the notion that going to AppState isn't equivalent to college doesn't really exist anymore among people 30 and younger. Maybe it did 20 years ago, but I don't agree with this statement.

Agree.

 

[BarcaDeac]

App St is a damn fine school and does not have the holier than thou attitude of many of the Wake Forest elite who think you have to charge $68,000 to get a quality education. There are many fine state institutions in every state and many parents are turning to them with what the private schools are charging. Go out here and pay 4-5 years of these prices we charge on a normal salary for your kid's education then come back & talk. I myself was just fine letting my kids both go in state & out of state to great state schools and both getting great jobs they both love. And they don't have to deal with Melissa Harris-Perry either who is now costing Wake Forest millions from where people are withdrawing from their prior Wake Will campaign gift pledges and the other liberal attitudes of this place.

Link?

 

[wfu22fan]

Some of the statements on the boards this week about App State the institution are outright embarrassing. App State is a perfectly good school and lots of fine people who go on to have successful lives go there, including several regular posters. I consider myself a reasonably successful professional and I know and associate with plenty of them. Nice folks who are proud of their alma mater (much like Wake, not many bandwagoners). Quit acting like a bunch of Duke fans.

As for the game, I was very much against the series back when App State was a I-AA school (plus we lost to them on my wedding day). Now that they're FBS I am very much in favor of it. It will be a great crowd, a great atmosphere and is close enough that any fan that wants to can attend. Same reason I am in favor of renewing the ECU series.

This.