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At least 172 Palestinians killed, 1,280 injured, UN says 77% are civilians

DeacMan said:
Or this, which ignores that Hamas launches rockets from houses. Again over 10,000 rockets in a 12 years. That's more than one a day. Don't think for one second these scum aren't purposefully setting up shop in the most densely populated places in Gaza. Of course they are. Yet any action against them is met with cries of "war crimes".

Hamas has admitted to these tactics. They openly speak about the elderly, the women and the children being willing to sacrifice themselves. This from the Hamas interior minister. But hey, you're not buying. Right? Never mind the admission, it just doesn't fit the narrative you want to buy.

"“For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: ‘We desire death like you desire life.’”
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in other words, fuck the brown kids
 
None of these comments are remotely close to anti-semitism.

What are you talking about?

Calling a group of people "assholes" as a collective audience absolutely does not equate to being against Jewish people as a whole.
 
DeacMan said:
You've proven nothing of the kind, Ph. But keep on convincing yourself.
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Prove what? That you don't read threads before jumping in? That's your MO. It's what you do. Now if you're going to say in this thread that you read the thread and decided rjkarl's points were so good that you wanted to repeat them, that's fine. The fact that you quoted a post from 8 days ago doesn't seem to back that up though.

But anyway, DeacMan you have no point unless it is to say that Israel just doesn't care that they're sending bombs into densely populated areas with a high risk of civilian casualties.

Or let me rephrase since I'm sure you'll try to get me on it. Israel just doesn't care that they're sending bombs into densely populated areas with a high risk of civilian casualties, with a courtesy warning.

If someone is using human shields, you don't have to kill the human shields. And you seem to acknowledge that killing women and children isn't slowing down the rocket fire from Hamas. So what's your point?
 
DeacMan said:
Calling a Jewish state a bunch of assholes, check.

Wondering how Hamas, a group that vows to destroy the Jewish state, will "defend" itself - when the answer is obvious - i.e. quit launching fucking rockets at Israel. Check.

Yep, no anti-semitism or prejudice here. 12,000 rockets have been launched by Hamas at Israel in the last dozen years. 12,000? And what does Israel do. Before they launch assaults they warn civilians to move out of the targeted area. They set up hospitals to treat those who may be hurt. But hey, they're the "assholes" - right?
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This isn't anti-semitism.

And any quotes yet?
 
I think the point is obvious. If Hamas gave a shit about its own people it wouldn't keep launching rockets at Israel. One side in this dispute launches rocket after rocket after rocket month after month after month. As soon as the other side responds folks start screaming about Israeli "war crimes". If you don't want the Israelis to attack, DON'T ATTACK THEM. Never mind the delivery of warnings to evacuate, the establishment of hospitals to provide care, the desire to avoid a ground offensive. No nation on earth should be required to endure what Israel endures. And no other nation would be remotely as patient before launching a broader response the way Israel is now doing. This isn't some unique flashpoint, Hamas has fired thousands upon thousands of rockets at Israel over the last decade. And the history of this particular latest "flashpoint" is replete with Hamas refusing to accept a cease fire.

The facts are pretty clear. Hamas kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teenagers. Israel goes after Hamas members. Hamas responds by launching hundreds of rockets stating that "all Israelis are legitimate targets". That isn't some idle threat, Ph. It is an act of war. War sucks. Israel in response to all the rockets begins to launch airstrikes. A ceasefire is called for by Egypt. Israel is willing to accept. Hamas rejects and keeps on firing rockets. And now Israel will step up its own strikes.

There is no equivocation here. One side is clearly the provoker. One side has accepted a cease fire. The other has rejected it. One side seeks to provide warning, medical care and a path to ending the hostilities. The other uses any and all response to heighten the conflict. It isn't hard to see who is right and who is wrong in this dispute. That part is easy. And the more people embolden Hamas and their sense of political gain by rushing to their defense, the worse the crisis will become. Hamas has been clear that they believe the Palestinians value death more then the Israelis value life. When anyone even tacitly gives that notion a voice, they are inviting horrible things for the region.
 
Hamas doesn't give a shit about anybody but themselves. It's a terrorist organization. That's why Israel needs to give a shit about Palestinian civilians as a legitimate government. They're not.

So either Israel is being goaded by terrorists into killing civilians or they want to kill civilians. Which one it is?

Just read the thread and you'll see several counters to your points. You're not saying anything new.
 
Hey dipshit. Hamas GOVERNS Gaza. They control it. So while it is all well and good to speak about a Marshall plan, it does you no good while Hamas is calling the shots. Never mind the fact most "Palestinians" still want a one state solution - you know the one that doesn't involve Israel existing as a nation. The notion that Israel is going to win over hearts and minds in a region that has seen sovereign nations launch three wars against it's very existence in the last 70 years is pretty laughable. Again, one side wants the other side to cease to exist. And the really sad thing is that well before Israel was an independent nation, the Brits had divided up the land and given 23% of it to the Jews and 77% to the Arabs. When both sides were later offered the chance to have their own nation one side accepted. The other side turned down the offer because they didn't want Israel to have a nation. That's a FACT. And 70 years later that fact still remains very much true. Unfortunate. And even more unfortunate that so many here are blaming Israel for daring to exist and defend itself. This isn't hard. You either recognize Israel's right to exist and defend it until the Arabs accept it. Or you condemn the world to accepting terror as an acceptable means to an end. That is the broader historical context within which everything you are witnessing today exists.

Israel isn't being goaded into anything. They are defending themselves against an enemy that wants to destroy them and refuses to accept anything less than their annihilation. You may not like some of the outcomes, none of us do. But that is also the reality. They are right, Hamas is wrong. End of story.

And I've read the thread. There are no counters to my posts. There's only a bunch of hyperbole by people who don't give a shit about Palestinians when they are being literally slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands in Syria . . .
 
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DeacMan said:
Hey dipshit. Hamas GOVERNS Gaza. They control it. So while it is all well and good to speak about a Marshall plan, it does you no good while Hamas is calling the shots. Never mind the fact most "Palestinians" still want a one state solution - you know the one that doesn't involve Israel existing as a nation. The notion that Israel is going to win over hearts and minds in a region that has seen sovereign nations launch three wars against it's very existence in the last 70 years is pretty laughable. Again, one side wants the other side to cease to exist. And the really sad thing is that well before Israel was an independent nation, the Brits had divided up the land and given 23% of it to the Jews and 77% to the Arabs. When both sides were later offered the chance to have their own nation one side accepted. The other side turned down the offer because they didn't want Israel to have a nation. That's a FACT. And 70 years later that fact still remains very much true. Unfortunate. And even more unfortunate that so many here are blaming Israel for daring to exist and defend itself. This isn't hard. You either recognize Israel's right to exist and defend it until the Arabs accept it. Or you condemn the world to accepting terror as an acceptable means to an end. That is the broader historical context within which everything you are witnessing today exists.

Israel isn't being goaded into anything. They are defending themselves against an enemy that wants to destroy them and refuses to accept anything less than their annihilation. You may not like some of the outcomes, none of us do. But that is also the reality. They are right, Hamas is wrong. End of story.

And I've read the thread. There are no counters to my posts. There's only a bunch of hyperbole by people who don't give a shit about Palestinians when they are being literally slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands in Syria . . .
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QFP.

Where were those anti-Semitic quotations, by the way?
 
Hamas tried to hand over power earlier this year and America and Israel undermined the whole thing.
 
DeaconSig said:
DeacMan- would Israel be within its rights to kill everyone in Gaza?
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Have you seen Israel suggest it wants to kill everyone in Gaza? No. Israel could have ended the existence of Gaza years ago. It has never done so. It has never sought to do so. And so your question is entirely irrelevant. Hamas knows this. They count on Israel to always make a measured response - because that is how a democratically governed society will normally seek to operate. And they count on a certain percentage of the world to scream loudly on their behalf if Israel takes any step towards Gaza - at all. Which is exactly what folks here (and elsewhere are doing).

But, of course, Hamas within the past 3 weeks has (shocker) openly proclaimed that all Israelis are legitimate targets for death (while launching rockets at Israel). And we know for a fact Hamas would, if they could, end Israel's very existence. It is the driving force in their charter. And therein lies the problem. Simply stated, Hamas' stated goal is the complete annihilation of Israel. And so long as one side not only does not want peace, but also as part of its charter calls for the complete annihilation of the other side and takes actions very much designed towards achieving that end, you can pretty much assure yourself there will be a very bad and bloody conflict unless the other side simply refuses at every turn, no matter how bad the provocation, to take action against the side calling for its destruction.

War sucks. But many on this thread very much want to equivocate Israel with Hamas. And that is utter bullshit.
 
Shared this for RJ over on the Pit thread, but it certainly applies to Deacman as well:

 
DeacMan said:
War sucks. But many on this thread very much want to equivocate Israel with Hamas. And that is utter bullshit.
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two comments for you

1 - please point out who on this thread is equivocating israel with hamas
2 - please point out the anti-semitic posts

thanks
 
So according to DeacMan, "rights" exist to the point one has tried to use them.

Next time, just answer the question, DeacMan.
 
DeacMan said:
Have you seen Israel suggest it wants to kill everyone in Gaza? No. Israel could have ended the existence of Gaza years ago. It has never done so. It has never sought to do so. And so your question is entirely irrelevant. Hamas knows this. They count on Israel to always make a measured response - because that is how a democratically governed society will normally seek to operate. And they count on a certain percentage of the world to scream loudly on their behalf if Israel takes any step towards Gaza - at all. Which is exactly what folks here (and elsewhere are doing).

But, of course, Hamas within the past 3 weeks has (shocker) openly proclaimed that all Israelis are legitimate targets for death (while launching rockets at Israel). And we know for a fact Hamas would, if they could, end Israel's very existence. It is the driving force in their charter. And therein lies the problem. Simply stated, Hamas' stated goal is the complete annihilation of Israel. And so long as one side not only does not want peace, but also as part of its charter calls for the complete annihilation of the other side and takes actions very much designed towards achieving that end, you can pretty much assure yourself there will be a very bad and bloody conflict unless the other side simply refuses at every turn, no matter how bad the provocation, to take action against the side calling for its destruction.

War sucks. But many on this thread very much want to equivocate Israel with Hamas. And that is utter bullshit.
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Nice dodge of the question. You say that Israel has made a measured response- and that may be true. But I am asking whether you think Israel is within their rights to clean out Gaza of every Palestinian living there.
 
DeacMan, how many dead Palestinians is too many?
 
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