BBall Recruiting Thread 2k16- SJM, Washington, Childress & Mitchell sign NLIs; 2017?

[Bones McKinney]

We also have a better tradition, NBA stars, and are in a conference that actually cares about basketball.

People are just making excuses.

We actually have no real tradition in basketball save for a couple of years here and there during some good times with Bones and Billy/Gil, Carl and Rod/Skip, Dave and Tim/Randolph, Skip and Josh or Chris and finally Dino and Jeff/James. But guys that is about 15 good years over 55 total years of basketball and only 1 Final Four and 4 ACC titles. We hardly even make it to the ACC semi-finals. That is not tradition when compared to Carolina or Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA, UConn, Kentucky, Florida. While we do have Tim and Chris and a few others in the NBA our academics preclude us from being an ACC juggernaut until we want to be one and the school lets us. Until then every school out there uses our own school against us in recruiting. That is just the way it is and forever shall be. Amen.

 

[JuiceCrewAllStar]

When you have a year of college data at a solid mid major level, HS data is pretty meaningless in comparison.

My only concern is a regression to the mean.

 

[wfu22fan]

T

While I agree that Woods is undervalued (likely because people are lazy, see "Charlotte" and tune out, as if mid-majors don't play good basketball), he and Wright could have most certainly co-existed. Unless Wright is a major pussy, which I doubt, he wouldn't have felt threatened by Woods. The likely reason Wright went to Miss St is because he apparently wasn't as interested in us as we thought, and because he wanted to play with his best friend. Ironically, in a recruiting year where everyone on earth thinks all the top dogs are going to bond together and be package deals, the one package deal that has definitively hurt us so far is one we didn't even know was an option. #noinsiders

Honestly, the redundancy in our recent recruiting is Woods and Washington.

I would be interested if data over time would show that "pure shooters" tend to be undervalued by recruiting rankings (save other-worldly folks like JJ Redick who had a ton of hype). IDK how you'd measure it, but it's a question I have.

We filled a major need with Woods and Washington. Maybe Wright saw a lot of competition at the SG spot. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush. I'm ecstatic that we have 3 shooters who will join our team in 2016-17. Enough bricks already.

 

[Wrangor]

Manning has clearly made it a priority to get shooters. I like that. He has to get a few starts to go with the shooters or nobody is going to be open. A guy like Kobe and obviously Giles would be great for this team. Manning is acquiring floor spacers. What he needs now is someone to draw the attention of the other players. We will see what happens. We may have a long road to recovery or a short one, but I like Manning as our coach. Here is hoping he can pull off some miracles on the recruiting trail and shorten our stay in the infirmary.

 

[loyal2afault]

Clawson has been quoted multiple times about Wake Forest always being about player development in order to be successful. At this point in program history, basketball is no different in that regard. We are by default in a situation where we have to bring in quality high school players with sufficient skills and mold them into ACC level players, as we are unlikely to hit many home runs with top 25 recruits given this decade's results. Until we consistently prove we can win against our top ACC brethren, we are unlikely to have the best high school players dreaming of becomin Demon Deacons.

 

[SkyDivingDeacon]

If we get Koby, I'm a lot less concerned about how 2016 will end up. We miss on Koby and I think that puts us in a tailspin that is hard to recover from. And frankly, I'm glad we didn't get Miller. Doral is going to eat his lunch every time they go head-to-head. Count it.

But we need a great big in this class, and Giles obviously wouldn't hurt but that's not happening.

 

[Wrangor]

Agree with Sky. If we get Kobe and a good big this will make a very good class. We get Giles and we have hit a grand slam. We need a big in the worst way though...even more than we need Kobe.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Clawson has been quoted multiple times about Wake Forest always being about player development in order to be successful. At this point in program history, basketball is no different in that regard. We are by default in a situation where we have to bring in quality high school players with sufficient skills and mold them into ACC level players, as we are unlikely to hit many home runs with top 25 recruits given this decade's results. Until we consistently prove we can win against our top ACC brethren, we are unlikely to have the best high school players dreaming of becomin Demon Deacons.

That's Devin Thomas and CMM. It can only get you so far.

 

[PhDeac]

Agree with Sky. If we get Kobe and a good big this will make a very good class. We get Giles and we have hit a grand slam. We need a big in the worst way though...even more than we need Kobe.

Kobe and Giles would be a killer combination. How is that cloning program coming along at Wake? Do we have a time machine program?

 

[scooter84]

We actually have no real tradition in basketball save for a couple of years here and there during some good times with Bones and Billy/Gil, Carl and Rod/Skip, Dave and Tim/Randolph, Skip and Josh or Chris and finally Dino and Jeff/James. But guys that is about 15 good years over 55 total years of basketball and only 1 Final Four and 4 ACC titles. We hardly even make it to the ACC semi-finals. That is not tradition when compared to Carolina or Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA, UConn, Kentucky, Florida. While we do have Tim and Chris and a few others in the NBA our academics preclude us from being an ACC juggernaut until we want to be one and the school lets us. Until then every school out there uses our own school against us in recruiting. That is just the way it is and forever shall be. Amen.

Well, no one has tradition when compared to the top programs in the country - except for those top programs. The point is that we are (or used to be, and believe we can be again) somewhere in the next tier. Our conference affiliation and the accompanying TV exposure help give us that potential. Would we be happy being the 3rd or 4th best program in the ACC? I think we would, generally. And that should mean sneaking into the ACC championship game and winning one every once in a while, consistent tourney bids with some deep runs, etc.. Once you get there, all it takes is one great recruiting class and/or some luck and all of a sudden you are in the elite 8 or final 4...

 

[RacerDeac]

We actually have no real tradition in basketball save for a couple of years here and there during some good times with Bones and Billy/Gil, Carl and Rod/Skip, Dave and Tim/Randolph, Skip and Josh or Chris and finally Dino and Jeff/James. But guys that is about 15 good years over 55 total years of basketball and only 1 Final Four and 4 ACC titles. We hardly even make it to the ACC semi-finals. That is not tradition when compared to Carolina or Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA, UConn, Kentucky, Florida. While we do have Tim and Chris and a few others in the NBA our academics preclude us from being an ACC juggernaut until we want to be one and the school lets us. Until then every school out there uses our own school against us in recruiting. That is just the way it is and forever shall be. Amen.

If I had the time I'd go search for my post where I go through and demonstrate that for a very long time pre-[name redacted], we were one of the top 20-25 teams in the nation. When it comes to time spent in the top 5 during Odom/Skip/Dino years, we were one of the top 10-15 schools in the country. No one has suggested we were ever a UNC or a Duke. But we were consistently one of the absolute best basketball teams in the nation.

 

[73CAV]

UVa. has build a top ten program without the burger boys. A.Gill as a transfer helped them a lot as will A. Nichols down the road. No idea about their Kiwi center Jack Salt. Taking good transfers and international players is a good strategy for the short run. Now the Hoos have 4 top 75 types signing up. They have a solid roster for the future.

Of course, one of the things folks tend to ignore is that Bennett has now had three of his recruits sign contracts with NBA teams, and none of them were in anyone's Top 100 as high school players (Joe Harris 3 star recruit, Akil Mitchell, a 2 star prospect until he committed, and Darion Atkins, a 3 star prospect). Admittedly, Mitchell played in the D League last year, and Atkins might do likewise, but their high school recruiting profiles would never have suggested such things. Furthermore, Malcolm Brogdon wasn't a consensus Top 100 recruit, and he is being hyped as an All American this year. It's also worth noting, I think, that Justin Anderson was barely a Top 50 prospect. The reverse is true, too. Bennett signed two 4 star prospects in his first recruiting class (James Johnson and K. T. Harrell) and they transferred when younger, less heralded, players moved ahead of them on the depth chart. The various recruiting services do not have the resources of time, personnel, or money to get the rankings right. They probably get the Top 15 to 25 close, but after that it is a crap shoot, and coaches in Manning's position need to do really good evaluations, and they need to coach up those players they do sign. It is a five to six year process, if done right, to build the sort of foundation that Bennett has constructed at UVa.

 

[Pilchard]

If you want to gage a program on Final 4 appearances, then yes, WF's one in 1962 does not get you very far, but from 1991 until 2010 (20 seasons), WF was a #5 seed or higher (that translates into top 20 for that season) in the NCAA tourney 10 times and was a #2 seed or higher (top 10 program) 4 times. Over that period, WF made the NCAA tourney 14 times and the NIT four times. WF was a solid top 25 program until and through Skip's passing and recruited like it. The fall was so steep and dramatic over the last 5 years that it's easy to forget (and apparently for recruits as well), but WF could recruit with anyone in the ACC (other than Duke and UNC) and anyone in the nation, but a few, until the coach before Danny Manning took over.

If Manning can find some moderate success, it will become much easier to recruit to WF again.

 

[PhDeac]

Well said, Pilchard. And recruits most likely didn't "forget" Wake's time as a top program. They never really knew it. Skip passed the summer before Harry Giles entered the 4th grade.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Well said, Pilchard. And recruits most likely didn't "forget" Wake's time as a top program. They never really knew it. Skip passed the summer before Harry Giles entered the 4th grade.

Yes he did but this happened two years later



Maybe Dino wasn't the long term answer but we still, two coaches later, are far worse off than we were during Dinos tenure. Listen to the intro and tell me that Wake doesn't have tradition. What a waste of an opportunity! We hired [name redacted] literally a few months after that game. Shaking my fucking head.

Whatever you think about DM, lesser programs made much better hires and are kicking our ass right now in recruiting. It's ridiculous that we are talking about four or five more rebuilding years at this point. And DM has not shown himself to be a Tony Bennett thus far. We have an unproven coach struggling to keep his head above water recruiting, a mediocre team and several mediocre recruiting classes. Shaking my fucking head.

 

[RazorWFU]

Yes he did but this happened two years later



Maybe Dino wasn't the long term answer but we still, two coaches later, are far worse off than we were during Dinos tenure. Listen to the intro and tell me that Wake doesn't have tradition. What a waste of an opportunity! We hired [name redacted] literally a few months after that game. Shaking my fucking head.

Whatever you think about DM, lesser programs made much better hires and are kicking our ass right now in recruiting. It's ridiculous that we are talking about four or five more rebuilding years at this point. And DM has not shown himself to be a Tony Bennett thus far. We have an unproven coach struggling to keep his head above water recruiting, a mediocre team and several mediocre recruiting classes. Shaking my fucking head.

1. [Redacted] was hired a year after this game
2. 2 Top 100 players and 1 Top 125 player in 2015 is not mediocre.

 

[MichDeac25]

Yes he did but this happened two years later



Maybe Dino wasn't the long term answer but we still, two coaches later, are far worse off than we were during Dinos tenure. Listen to the intro and tell me that Wake doesn't have tradition. What a waste of an opportunity! We hired [name redacted] literally a few months after that game. Shaking my fucking head.

Whatever you think about DM, lesser programs made much better hires and are kicking our ass right now in recruiting. It's ridiculous that we are talking about four or five more rebuilding years at this point. And DM has not shown himself to be a Tony Bennett thus far. We have an unproven coach struggling to keep his head above water recruiting, a mediocre team and several mediocre recruiting classes. Shaking my fucking head.

You mean when Tony Bennett went 15-16 and then 16-15 his first two years at UVA in a less difficult ACC? Just chill out.

 

[PhDeac]

You mean when Tony Bennett went 15-16 and then 16-15 his first two years at UVA in a less difficult ACC? Just chill out.

Gave up [Redacted]'s only ACC win in his first year.

 

[RacerDeac]

We actually have no real tradition in basketball save for a couple of years here and there during some good times with Bones and Billy/Gil, Carl and Rod/Skip, Dave and Tim/Randolph, Skip and Josh or Chris and finally Dino and Jeff/James. But guys that is about 15 good years over 55 total years of basketball and only 1 Final Four and 4 ACC titles. We hardly even make it to the ACC semi-finals. That is not tradition when compared to Carolina or Duke, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA, UConn, Kentucky, Florida. While we do have Tim and Chris and a few others in the NBA our academics preclude us from being an ACC juggernaut until we want to be one and the school lets us. Until then every school out there uses our own school against us in recruiting. That is just the way it is and forever shall be. Amen.

If I had the time I'd go search for my post where I go through and demonstrate that for a very long time pre-[name redacted], we were one of the top 20-25 teams in the nation. When it comes to time spent in the top 5 during Odom/Skip/Dino years, we were one of the top 10-15 schools in the country. No one has suggested we were ever a UNC or a Duke. But we were consistently one of the absolute best basketball teams in the nation.

Found it:
http://www.ogboards.com/forums/show...ve-Glenn-Now?p=1668161&viewfull=1#post1668161

Despite the Buzz error, since Odom started in 1989, Wake is still ranked #22 in Top 25 appearances, #23 in Top 10 appearances, #25 in Top 5 appearances, and #23 in #1 appearances. For the more recent years during which Skip and Dino coached, Wake was #15 in Top 25, #15 in the Top 10, #17 in Top 5, and #15 in #1 appearances. 4 of the teams (UNC, Duke, Pitt, Cuse) consistently ahead of us in those rankings are in the ACC, and Louisville hovers right around where we are. So, that leaves less than 10 jobs that would be steps up that aren't in the ACC.

 

[HONDO2]

Oh man, does that bring back memories. What a show. Remember watching that on the tube that night. Nobody but NOBODY in the country had a pre-tip mayhem like us back then. If Harry sees that video HE'S OURS !!

ROCK THE JOEL HARRY....ROCK THE JOEL !