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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

Wrangor said:
We are not in the same place. Life is what you make it. I can be disappointed with where we are as a program and not make it my life’s duty to remind the world of my disappointment with every word I write. I can even be disappointed with where we are and still have excitement over the upcoming year.

Two people on the beach. One is complaining about the sand and the heat and the other is building sandcastles. Same location, completely different realities.

We stunk last year. Danny has a year to figure it out and make the tourney or there won’t be a soul on this board willing to stand with him. I’m just so tired of every single daily piece of news being shredded into some harbinger of Manning destroying our program. [Redacted] tanked the program. Our current staff is actually working really hard to bring it back. They may fail to do so, but they don’t deserve the backlash that many on these boards give them.

“Manning signed 2 preferred walkons! We suck!”

“We don’t have anyone signed for 2019 yet! We suck!”

“We signed a Postgrad that is a big man that played for an NCAA tournament team last year and fills a need, but we still suck!”

“Manning looks disinterested, he sucks!”

“We have transfers, Manning must suck! I wish we had Keats! (Er....NC States best pro prospect just transferred out after his sophomore year to sit a year and then play for someone else....)

“We offered a top 50 player for 2019, haha, we suck so bad he will never sign here!”

We all get it, there is a lot of dissatisfaction with Manning and our staff. I don’t think we need hourly reminders.
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This is a great post.
 
RacerDeac said:
Nor is it hurtful, but it sure does feel good. It's a message board.
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This....go somewhere else like the facebook page for false positivity.

I do not care if you are working hard. if you have zero examples of sucess, and you have not shown an ounce of ability to learn how to be a success, you need to start changing your ways or get out.

the wake basketball program should be above accepting 4 players that no other acc program would even look at.

its the positive posters that wonder why we have 11 wins in a season, and why things dont seem to just get better under this staff...they are clueless...and if you cant see that yet then you shouldnt be telling people how to post on a message board
 
canadiandeac said:
This....go somewhere else like the facebook page for false positivity.

I do not care if you are working hard. if you have zero examples of sucess, and you have not shown an ounce of ability to learn how to be a success, you need to start changing your ways or get out.

the wake basketball program should be above accepting 4 players that no other acc program would even look at.

its the positive posters that wonder why we have 11 wins in a season, and why things dont seem to just get better under this staff...they are clueless...and if you cant see that yet then you shouldnt be telling people how to post on a message board
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Are we including the preferred walk-ons in our criticisms again?

We know why.
 
I can think for myself so obviously I should shoulder the blame for my own thinking, but over confidence and hype on this board following Collins’ sophomore year and lots of talk about Doral and Crawford set my expectations for this season way too high. Excess positivity on this board last summer made the absolute failure of this past season more frustrating. Negativity sucks, sure, but so does excessive positivity, we really just need some realism around here.
 
Including the announcements of the preferred walk-ons as a criticism is monumentally stupid and Ph has gone full-on miserable lately, but if people are expecting nothing but positivity on here, you might as well just shut this place down for the next 6 months until the season starts up again. There's only so many ways you can say "I hope Sarr makes a leap" or "I hope Hoard plays like Josh Howard" over and over again.
 
Ayo said:
Including the announcements of the preferred walk-ons as a criticism is monumentally stupid and Ph has gone full-on miserable lately, but if people are expecting nothing but positivity on here, you might as well just shut this place down for the next 6 months until the season starts up again. There's only so many ways you can say "I hope Sarr makes a leap" or "I hope Hoard plays like Josh Howard" over and over again.
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based on his last 6 years of track record...if you have legit hope of either of those things happening you should begin to ignore basketball until changes are made. wake basektball has no bright future under manning or wellman, and will continue to be bottom feeders in the ACC until both of them are gone, or drastically change their ways...
 
birdman said:
I can think for myself so obviously I should shoulder the blame for my own thinking, but over confidence and hype on this board following Collins’ sophomore year and lots of talk about Doral and Crawford set my expectations for this season way too high. Excess positivity on this board last summer made the absolute failure of this past season more frustrating. Negativity sucks, sure, but so does excessive positivity, we really just need some realism around here.
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I'm 100% guilty of my own over-positivity. I do think that people thought/think I like Manning as a coach a lot more than I really do because I would argue with some of the ridiculous criticisms.

Ayo said:
Including the announcements of the preferred walk-ons as a criticism is monumentally stupid and Ph has gone full-on miserable lately, but if people are expecting nothing but positivity on here, you might as well just shut this place down for the next 6 months until the season starts up again. There's only so many ways you can say "I hope Sarr makes a leap" or "I hope Hoard plays like Josh Howard" over and over again.
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It's not expecting nothing other than positivity, (for me at least) it's more of nothing but negativity that's annoying - especially in Ph's case since he posts so often (which is why I stopped replying to his posts for the most part). Some other negative posters aren't nearly as bad because they don't post 5+ times an hour. It would also be refreshing to be able to discuss recruiting/recruits without a "no chance" or "why tf did we offer this kid" type of comment assuredly coming from someone every time.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I'm 100% guilty of my own over-positivity. I do think that people thought/think I like Manning as a coach a lot more than I really do because I would argue with some of the ridiculous criticisms.



It's not expecting nothing other than positivity, (for me at least) it's more of nothing but negativity that's annoying - especially in Ph's case since he posts so often (which is why I stopped replying to his posts for the most part). Some other negative posters aren't nearly as bad because they don't post 5+ times an hour. It would also be refreshing to be able to discuss recruiting/recruits without a "no chance" or "why tf did we offer this kid" type of comment assuredly coming from someone every time.
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have you not been paying attention? unless your program is comfortable with paying 10s or 100s of thousands for top recruits then its not realistic to get think we have a legit shot. very few top recruits value what wake has to offer at this point...
 
Surprisingly this team is still salvageable. If we are able to land SKJ as a transfer, prevent any early attrition of this current roster, and land a solid 2019 class with Anthony Harris, Patrick Williams and 1 of Tre Mitchell/Omar Payne ... then the 2019 roster looks damn good. Obviously takes a lot of pieces to fall into place, but is also not completely unrealistic. There are reasons to be both optimistic and pessimistic about Danny's ability to make it happen.

The most frustrating thing to me is that the two potential outcomes are so extreme. Best case scenario is the 2019 roster is stacked and we make a deep NCAA run, then send 3 guys to the league, success brings in more top recruits and the wheel keeps churning. Worst case scenario is we don't land any top recruits, lose 20 games in 2018, have massive roster attrition and struggle to get to double digit wins for another half-decade.

I pray the basketball gods find a way to look favorably upon us, because we have suffered enough this past decade under the sins of Wellman.
 
Some of you act like if we make the tournament this year (not happening) that all will be forgiven. Nothing short of a final four run could come close to making up for the past 9 years of suffering. Our program is dogshit and we are a fucking joke. Guess I am just a negative poster though...
 
netflixnchildres said:
Surprisingly this team is still salvageable. If we are able to land SKJ as a transfer, prevent any early attrition of this current roster, and land a solid 2019 class with Anthony Harris, Patrick Williams and 1 of Tre Mitchell/Omar Payne ... then the 2019 roster looks damn good. Obviously takes a lot of pieces to fall into place, but is also not completely unrealistic. There are reasons to be both optimistic and pessimistic about Danny's ability to make it happen.

The most frustrating thing to me is that the two potential outcomes are so extreme. Best case scenario is the 2019 roster is stacked and we make a deep NCAA run, then send 3 guys to the league, success brings in more top recruits and the wheel keeps churning. Worst case scenario is we don't land any top recruits, lose 20 games in 2018, have massive roster attrition and struggle to get to double digit wins for another half-decade.

I pray the basketball gods find a way to look favorably upon us, because we have suffered enough this past decade under the sins of Wellman.
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Good coaches/programs don't have binary outcomes.
 
netflixnchildres said:
Surprisingly this team is still salvageable. If we are able to land SKJ as a transfer, prevent any early attrition of this current roster, and land a solid 2019 class with Anthony Harris, Patrick Williams and 1 of Tre Mitchell/Omar Payne ... then the 2019 roster looks damn good. Obviously takes a lot of pieces to fall into place, but is also not completely unrealistic. There are reasons to be both optimistic and pessimistic about Danny's ability to make it happen.

The most frustrating thing to me is that the two potential outcomes are so extreme. Best case scenario is the 2019 roster is stacked and we make a deep NCAA run, then send 3 guys to the league, success brings in more top recruits and the wheel keeps churning. Worst case scenario is we don't land any top recruits, lose 20 games in 2018, have massive roster attrition and struggle to get to double digit wins for another half-decade.

I pray the basketball gods find a way to look favorably upon us, because we have suffered enough this past decade under the sins of Wellman.
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Good post. Completely agree. That is why a week or so ago I said I'm basically off the Danny train at this point. I could be swayed back obviously, but both these outcomes (and how our 2018-19 season goes) are based on "unknowns" so I'm skeptical at best.
 
canadiandeac said:
have you not been paying attention? unless your program is comfortable with paying 10s or 100s of thousands for top recruits then its not realistic to get think we have a legit shot. very few top recruits value what wake has to offer at this point...
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If we could consistently land classes like '15, '17, and '18 we would see a lot of success (craw, Moore, Collins, Chaundee, Sarr, Hoard, Chill, and Mucius. Maybe even Lewis Egg and/or Wright Jr. pan out to give quality time - who knows). Good mix of "star" caliber player and above average role players. The 2016 class being a dud is probably the biggest thing hurting us right now.
 
Stan Gable said:
Good coaches/programs don't have binary outcomes.
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Some coaches can be a complete disaster in one position (Bzzz here) and considered a genius guru in another (Bzzz in Houston). Phil Jackson did wonders for the Bulls and Lakers but then went to the toxic Knicks and James Dolan where it was a complete disaster. Billie Gillispie made Kentucky look like an average program until Calipari came in and turned it back into a beast.

A program or a coach in a power 6 conference needs consistently good players to be good. In lower conferences straight up coaching can get you on top. In the ACC no matter who your coach is, without talent you're Pitt '17-'18. We need more talent on a consistent basis. The 1 year we made the tourney in the past decade was because we had a 1st round draft pick having a break out season.
 
Stan Gable said:
Good coaches/programs don't have binary outcomes.
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There are outcomes between those extremes that are possible. It is not a binary situation. There are also outlier scenarios that are better than the best case described. For instance, if Sarr has a John Collins 2.0 year, Hoard is as good as a 5 star should be, Craw returns and plays like he needs to for a good pre-NBA season, Chaundee and Melo makes a respectable frosh to soph improvement, the two grad transfers are able to contribute, and Wake could just squeeze into the top third of the ACC.

With some things going the other way, 2018-2019 could be worse than 2017-2018.

Most probably some things go well and other things not so well and Wake is somewhere in the middle third of the ACC.
 
netflixnchildres said:
A program or a coach in a power 6 conference needs consistently good players to be good. In lower conferences straight up coaching can get you on top. In the ACC no matter who your coach is, without talent you're Pitt '17-'18. We need more talent on a consistent basis. The 1 year we made the tourney in the past decade was because we had a 1st round draft pick having a break out season.
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This is why I'm hesitant on the ol' Wes Miller train. He could be a good coach. But he has zero cache to recruits. He could come in and suck with bad talent and that would begin a new 5 year cycle.
 
MichDeac25 said:
This is why I'm hesitant on the ol' Wes Miller train. He could be a good coach. But he has zero cache to recruits. He could come in and suck with bad talent and that would begin a new 5 year cycle.
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Talent is paramount in the upper echelons of college basketball today. Conventional wisdom is that it takes three NBA caliber players, with at least one a starter, plus a couple of Euro-league level talent guys to be a serious contender for the NCAA title.

Winning the ACC regular season requires about the same. Top half ACC finish requires at least two NBA quality players.
 
SKJ would a huge sign for next year, and in my opinion would give us a much needed boost of momentum heading into the summer evaluation period. Our team looks a whole lot more enticing going to 2019 with him, Sarr, Hoard at the 4/5. Hopefully Hoard is good enough to be drafted, but it is pointless to speculate at this point. I also hope that we don't ever again have a player sign an agent, and then not be a top 100 NBA draft prospect. Moore's decision is still as unbelievable to me today as when he made it. Guy is going to be in the Czech Republic instead of playing ACC basketball and potentially improving his stock enough to actually be drafted in the NBA.
 
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