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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

birdman said:
The degrees of disagreement with RC107 are in reality minuscule. We all agree that Manning is better than BZ but still pretty much sucks and is not good enough for Wake. RC107 is just a tremendous stickler of nuanced ratings and data and relentlessly argues with people that either don’t interpret the data the way he does or prefer different data points. He really can be a complete dick about it and it gets tiresome.
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The one part that is not minuscule is whether Manning should have been coaching this year or whether we should be starting the next rebuild with a tiny bit of hope.
 
RChildress107 said:
And yet this board spends a conspicuous amount of time on “tiresome” arguments of “minuscule” disagreements.
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Not me, not anymore. We agree, Manning probably sucks and and almost certainly isn’t good enough to coach Wake. The rest is minutia. I hope you had an excellent Saturday.
 
knowell said:
The one part that is not minuscule is whether Manning should have been coaching this year or whether we should be starting the next rebuild with a tiny bit of hope.
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Yeah that was a big disagreement back in March and April. But to fire Manning now is probably not a good idea or worth it. Plus I would bet that most of the “keep ‘em” camp would have changed their minds if they’d know how the summer and Fall recruiting would go plus Crawford and Moore would both be leaving.
 
birdman said:
Yeah that was a big disagreement back in March and April. But to fire Manning now is probably not a good idea or worth it. Plus I would bet that most of the “keep ‘em” camp would have changed their minds if they’d know how the summer and Fall recruiting would go plus Crawford and Moore would both be leaving.
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Well they could have thought carefully about it and made an educated guess like the rest of us did.
 
BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - 2019 SF Ismael Massoud commits to Wake!

PhDeac said:
Well they could have thought carefully about it and made an educated guess like the rest of us did.
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Geez, you can be so smug sometimes.

I tend to agree with Birdman, actually. Not sure why I should have expected Moore and Crawford to leave. Usually I think underclassmen leave early when they have a shot at getting drafted.

I’m still OK with Manning for this year. I think he deserves another season after last year’s disaster.

Hopefully there will be someone better that we can identify (and hire) if Manning is let go.
 
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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - 2019 SF Ismael Massoud commits to Wake!

Meh. I’m tired of Wake fans and leadership continuously missing the obvious and dooming us to failure.

There were rumors of Moore and Crawford leaving all year. We talked about it. Many just chose to dismiss them. People dismissed it even after Moore and Crawford declared.

Keep in mind, they both declared in March. We definitely could have fired Manning after they declared. If you didn’t think two players who were rumored all season to want to leave were going to leave after declaring for the NBA, that’s on you. I can’t understand how someone could think “Yeah my support for Manning depends on two guys coming back who just declared for the NBA.”
 
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PhDeac said:
Meh. I’m tired of Wake fans and leadership continuously missing the obvious and dooming is to failure.
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Yeah, we want the same thing. I just don’t like being portrayed as a moron because I didn’t predict Moore and Crawford leaving.

The recruiting? Sure. It was going to be tough to hit a home run off of a brutal season... But the current 2019 result is worse than I would like. Big fan of Massoud, but he’s not what I would want as the #1 guy in a 3-4 person class.
 
PhDeac said:
I can’t understand how someone could think “Yeah my support for Manning depends on two guys coming back who just declared for the NBA.”
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I wouldn’t phrase it like that.

With Crawford and Moore along with the current roster, I think that’s a NCAA Tourney team.

I also wouldn’t call it declaring for the NBA when they had zero shot of getting drafted.

I assumed that once Woods left, the other two would come back. Or at least one of them. I was clearly wrong.
 
Why would either come back once Woods left?

Woods leaving was the sign that it wasn’t just about individual aspirations.
 
Somebody died too, lets not forget that. Among unforeseeable events, a coach hired to recruit is no longer here, and its because someone died. Regardless, the writing on the wall was there with Manning before last season was over.
 
PhDeac said:
Why would either come back once Woods left?

Woods leaving was the sign that it wasn’t just about individual aspirations.
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My assumption was that they didn’t get along and that Woods leaving would make things more tolerable for Moore and Crawford (or at least one of them).

I didn’t think either of them would make a terrible decision about going pro... Woods has zero chance of playing in the NBA and could transfer without sitting out a year. I thought Moore and/or Crawford would look at a senior season as a chance to improve their NBA chances from very low to low.

Different situations.

But I also get that I have no real idea what went on in the locker room last year. Nobody that posts here does.

I know your response will be that I was just ignoring the obvious signs, but I don’t feel that way.
 
DeacsATS said:
My assumption was that they didn’t get along and that Woods leaving would make things more tolerable for Moore and Crawford (or at least one of them).

I didn’t think either of them would make a terrible decision about going pro... Woods has zero chance of playing in the NBA and could transfer without sitting out a year. I thought Moore and/or Crawford would look at a senior season as a chance to improve their NBA chances from very low to low.

Different situations.

But I also get that I have no real idea what went on in the locker room last year. Nobody that posts here does.

I know your response will be that I was just ignoring the obvious signs, but I don’t feel that way.
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That's why our program continues to fall apart. People keep missing the obvious and fans let them get away with it.
 
DeacsATS said:
My assumption was that they didn’t get along and that Woods leaving would make things more tolerable for Moore and Crawford (or at least one of them).

I didn’t think either of them would make a terrible decision about going pro... Woods has zero chance of playing in the NBA and could transfer without sitting out a year. I thought Moore and/or Crawford would look at a senior season as a chance to improve their NBA chances from very low to low.

Different situations.

But I also get that I have no real idea what went on in the locker room last year. Nobody that posts here does.

I know your response will be that I was just ignoring the obvious signs, but I don’t feel that way.
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We don't know what happened in that locker room but we can surmise that it was worse than we thought due to 7 defections. We can also surmise it was not a chemistry problem since players kept leaving even after other players left. If it was a chemistry issue, once some players left, others would likely have stayed. That pretty much leaves a problem with the coach.

Pretty much all we have left to hope for is that the coach learned a lot over the off season and the new players are not yet turned off by Manning. What are the odds?
 
PhDeac said:
That's why our program continues to fall apart. People keep missing the obvious and fans let them get away with it.
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Apropos of nothing, I just think you and I have fundamentally differing views on a lot of things in this world.

And that’s fine.

It’s actually kind of funny because from reading your posts over the years, I think we have a lot of the same interests (and TV viewing habits).

In this case, we just seem to disagree on what is or isn’t obvious, and the impact our posted opinions have on the direction of the Wake Forest Basketball program.

FWIW, I’m coming around on Manning needing to go, but I’m still approaching this season with a fair amount of optimism.

#newbeginnings
 
PhDeac said:
That's why our program continues to fall apart. People keep missing the obvious and fans let them get away with it.
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What is the obvious? And what are fans supposed to do? Go full Brutus and stab Wellman or Manning? Unless you are one of the handful of meaningful donors, you can stomp and scream all you want, but it won't do a damn thing. If you want to influence some change, be more than a peon. And in full disclosure, I am a peon.
 
The obvious:

Player defections reflect negatively on Manning.
Recruiting wasn’t going to magically improve after a losing season.
 
Not be content or happy with losing. At the very least, don’t go on the internet and make excuses.
 
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