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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

tigerswood said:
Huh? There will be ample early playing time available at all 3 non-wing positions in 2019-20. Unless you're assuming that some combination of Childress/Sarr/Mucius are going to turn into world beaters and never leave the floor.
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If you look at the projected Wake lineup right now, in addition to BChill, Jamie Lewis and Sharone Wright, Jr. appear to be available at the PG position in 2019-20.

Hoard, Mucius, D Mitchell, Sarr (and maybe Sam) could all see time at 4/5 for 2019-20.

If you don't have a great understanding of the nuances of what might happen in two years, do you look at that and see lots of minutes for a freshman?
 
Deaconblue said:
If you look at the projected Wake lineup right now, in addition to BChill, Jamie Lewis and Sharone Wright, Jr. appear to be available at the PG position in 2019-20.

Hoard, Mucius, D Mitchell, Sarr (and maybe Sam) could all see time at 4/5 for 2019-20.

If you don't have a great understanding of the nuances of what might happen in two years, do you look at that and see lots of minutes for a freshman?
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Top 100 players shouldn't really be scared of competition for playing time, unless you're stepping into a loaded situation like Duke, UK, etc (and most of those guys leave after 1 year anyways). If I'm a top PG or PF/C prospect, I'm confident in my ability to beat out every single one of those players you mentioned, other than Hoard who should/will be playing the 3 most of the time. Unless you're giving the recruits a similar mindset to many on these boards that Manning will always play his more senior players, regardless of ability.

Good programs "recruit over" their current players every single year, and Wake used to as well. Need to get back to that level.
 
I see it somewhat the opposite, with most time coming at the 3/4 for anybody coming in.

If the roster stays together there really isn't a lot of time at the 1, 2, or 5 position unless Manning has a huge change of heart. Hoard is a stud, but Manning is only playing Chaundee like 17 minutes per game. I don't know if that will change.

Doral will eat 30 minutes at the 5, Bryant/Chill will get almost all the time at the 1, Woods/Brown will eat up most of the 40 at the 2.
 
So you're saying, especially by referencing Chaundee's minutes, that Danny will always play his experienced players more minutes, regardless if a freshman is talented enough to beat them out? If so, and that's really the case, then he should be fired today and never should have been hired. What a horrible philosophy.
 
I keep seeing his name pop up in line ups for next year, but why would anyone think Jamie Lewis will even be in a Wake uniform next season? I would not count him as part of the equation given his injury history.
 
tigerswood said:
So you're saying, especially by referencing Chaundee's minutes, that Danny will always play his experienced players more minutes, regardless if a freshman is talented enough to beat them out? If so, and that's really the case, then he should be fired today and never should have been hired. What a horrible philosophy.
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I'd love someone to explain why Childress and Wilbekin deserve so much time in 3 guard lineups over playing Chaundee at SF.

PlayerGPMINPPGRPGAPGSPGBPGTPGFG%FT%3P%
Bryant Crawford2130.815.82.94.71.80.23.6.391.902.343
Keyshawn Woods1825.012.92.71.61.00.01.8.471.854.431
Doral Moore2123.910.58.80.30.32.11.2.717.449.000
Brandon Childress2025.99.42.83.60.70.02.2.404.767.389
Mitchell Wilbekin2026.18.62.51.40.70.00.7.381.784.419
Chaundee Brown2020.47.73.21.20.30.21.4.411.909.346

The numbers suggest Crawford should be playing 30-32 min, Woods and Brown should be playing 28-30 min, Childress should be playing 8-10 behind Crawford and 5-8 min with him and Wilbekin should be playing the rest (10-21 min).

Chaundee has had several games in which he's barely played and Saturday was his 3rd 20 point game (GaSo, BC, Lville). Chaundee has played 25+ minutes in 3 ACC games and scored 20, 16, and 20. Wilbekin has played 25+ minutes in every ACC game except VT and only has 3 games scoring double digits (10, 11, 10).
 
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Deaconblue said:
Wake, like every other non-blue blood school is going to have ups and downs in recruiting. Recruits will see opportunity for early playing time and come to Wake. When early playing time doesn't seem to be there, then they go somewhere that appears to have early playing time available.
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Agree. That’s why our recruiting fell off in 2016.
 
tigerswood said:
So you're saying, especially by referencing Chaundee's minutes, that Danny will always play his experienced players more minutes, regardless if a freshman is talented enough to beat them out? If so, and that's really the case, then he should be fired today and never should have been hired. What a horrible philosophy.
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Well I can't say this for certain, but based on his 4 years here that seems to be a very real possibility.
 
tigerswood said:
Top 100 players shouldn't really be scared of competition for playing time, unless you're stepping into a loaded situation like Duke, UK, etc (and most of those guys leave after 1 year anyways). If I'm a top PG or PF/C prospect, I'm confident in my ability to beat out every single one of those players you mentioned, other than Hoard who should/will be playing the 3 most of the time. Unless you're giving the recruits a similar mindset to many on these boards that Manning will always play his more senior players, regardless of ability.

Good programs "recruit over" their current players every single year, and Wake used to as well. Need to get back to that level.
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There is a difference between "competing for playing time" and starting from day 1. Guys who are top 100 (but not top 25 or so) won't automatically push out more experienced players who were likewise top 100 players, but now have experience playing in college.

Many of the top 100 will look for situations where they are potentially stepping into a void, not a competition with a more experienced player at their own talent level.

Some teams can and do "recruit over" players on the roster. I think of this as getting more talented guys at positions where there already are players. For many teams, what they really do, and need to do is "recruit follow-on players." By that I mean players who won't take existing players starting jobs or minutes, but will be there when the incumbent leaves (via graduation, pro league etc.) and will get backup minutes.

For Wake with the roster as barren as it was a year after the previous coach left, it was a complete and total roster rebuild. That usually happens in stages:
Get enough ACC-level players to look competitive with most of the league. Some need to be developmental projects.
Recruit guys who have potential to be all ACC (at some level) but have holes in their game that keep them from being top 25. Coach them up.
Recruit top 25 talent.

Sometimes these stages don't flow neatly. Particularly when the player development gets ahead of the recruiting to fill spots. That is what happened to Wake this year. How many people had John Collins pegged as an NBA first round pick when he arrived at Wake? Very few, if any.
 
JC wasn't close to being ready as frosh and committed too many fouls to play much more. Wilbekin played over 28 mpg as a frosh. Craw played over 30 mpg as a frosh. If Danny thinks you can play and has a place for you, he will play you big minutes as a frosh.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Well I can't say this for certain, but based on his 4 years here that seems to be a very real possibility.
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See my edit above comparing Wilbekin and Brown's minutes and production. We don't think what happened to Chaundee will happen to Hoard, but it's possible. And I don't hold much hope for Wright and Mucius to see a lot of action.
 
I don't know why I'm so worked up, but the idea that it could be acceptable for 2016 or 2019 to be a down recruiting year for WF basketball due to the talent level already on the team is absolutely absurd, and one of the most LOWF things I've ever read. Our talent level was/is/will be WAY below average for an ACC team at positions of need, and people are using the mere existence of those players as an excuse for recruits not wanting to come.

It should not have been hard (based on Manning's apparent recruiting chops) to get a top wing prospect to commit in 2016. It should not be hard at all to get a top 100ish PG and PF/C prospect for 2019. Now, this is all based on the idea that Manning is a strong recruiter, and our abysmal on-court performance isn't really a factor.
 
Deaconblue said:
If you look at the projected Wake lineup right now, in addition to BChill, Jamie Lewis and Sharone Wright, Jr. appear to be available at the PG position in 2019-20.

Hoard, Mucius, D Mitchell, Sarr (and maybe Sam) could all see time at 4/5 for 2019-20.

If you don't have a great understanding of the nuances of what might happen in two years, do you look at that and see lots of minutes for a freshman?
Click to expand...

if you're a top 50 recruit then yes, i assume i'm going to ball out at WF!
 
buckets said:
if you're a top 50 recruit then yes, i assume i'm going to ball out at WF!
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And then Manning sits you behind the assistant coach's kid and a former All-American's brother.
 
For 2019 assuming no attrition from the 18-19 team our priorities should be 1. a PF/C (Omar Payne/Tre Mitchell) 2. A scoring guard with handle (Anthony Harris/Deuce Dean/Jalen Lecque/Zach Harvey) and 3. a wing (Wendell Moore/Juwan Gary/Christian Brown/DJ Jeffries). Most of these guys are top 50 or top 100. Have no idea outside of the top 125 players who we would target. Can't settle for 3 stars and expect to turn this program around.
 
PhDeac said:
And then Manning sits you behind the assistant coach's kid and a former All-American's brother.
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This confuses me. Who is sitting behind Brandon? I don't see anybody on this roster.

Chaundee looked a little lost the first few times he played. Now, with a little more experience he looks decent. He appears to be improving game by game. And now that he is playing better, he is starting.
 
Read my prior posts on this thread. Childress and Wilbekin have been getting minutes as a 3rd guard over Chaundee all season.
 
Collins was criminally under used as a freshman. He fell under Manning strange obsession with sitting a post man if he gets two fouls in the first half or three in the second for almost the entire half.
 
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