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Biggest Reform EVER passed thread

For me, it's not about the home owning. My bracket is going up. Not down.

And let me clarify: I'm generally happy to be able to pay taxes. But I'm not at all happy to anticipate paying a higher tax rate SO THAT people much richer than me can pay less. And we have the deficit going up and crappier services for most people. If my taxes were going up so we could provide better services (etc.) then I'd be fine with that.
 
palmab03 said:
Currently the barrier to entry is becoming too high. that's the problem. I'm a poor so I don't have a house yet. In the most liberal of cities, the only people who can buy a house now are the people who already gained equity from buying a prior house that appreciated. That doesn't help the income inequality gap. Thought you cared about the poors, guess that was #fakenews.
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Supply and demand. People want to live in the big liberal cities. Go count beans in rural Kansas and you can buy a huge home and live with the conservatives.
 
Cause homeownership tax deduction (current law) ain't helping the middle class much

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The value of these subsidies also rises with income. The lowest-income 20 percent of households will effectively get no benefit from the deductions for property taxes and mortgage interest. Middle-income households will see an average tax cut of $170, or 0.3 percent of their after-tax income. In contrast, the top 20 percent of the income distribution receives an average benefit of 1.2 percent of after-tax income, or about $2,800. The value of these subsidies as a share of after-tax-income declines for the highest income households in part because the mortgage deduction is capped at $1 million and because of other deduction caps in the tax code.
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http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/who-benefits-tax-subsidies-home-ownership
 
ConnorEl said:
For me, it's not about the home owning. My bracket is going up. Not down.

And let me clarify: I'm generally happy to be able to pay taxes. But I'm not at all happy to anticipate paying a higher tax rate SO THAT people much richer than me can pay less. And we have the deficit going up and crappier services for most people. If my taxes were going up so we could provide better services (etc.) then I'd be fine with that.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't see what bracket goes up in the Senate plan compared to current law. They all go down.

There's no income range you can fall into in which your taxes rise.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/how-the-senate-and-house-tax-brackets-compare.html

What I imagine you're doing is saying you're a single person who makes $180k/yr, see that you're in the 32% tax bracket under the new plan versus 28% tax bracket under the old plan. What you're missing is that 4% higher is only on the $20k in income from $160-180k, or like $1,600. You saved way more than $1,600 from the lower tax brackets. A single person at $180k without a house or kids saves about $6k overall. Similar applies if you're married.

If you're not in that $160-200k range (Or $240-320k for married), your bracket is lower no matter what, and if you're in those ranges your taxes are less and you're doing the math wrong.
 
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WakeandBake said:
So you are in favor of using tax code to devalue homes for the middle class by a couple of hundred thousand ( your words) to lower the barrier of entry in the most liberal of cities to protect the deficit from tax cuts to corporation and the wealthy? That doesn’t sound cockamamie?
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Inflating houses prices through tax loopholes have caused issues for years. I'm fine with reversing that terrible policy.
 
I know the argument you are making and it is worthy of discussion, but in this case you and the GOP tax bill you are trolling/glibly JCDing is using deductions like the mortgage interest deduction and the state/local tax deduction to pay for cuts to corporate and to keep the highest income tax brackets where they are, are they not? The gimmick here is to give the illusion of tax cuts for everyone. Smoke and mirrors.

Just have testicles/ovaries and level with Americans about it.
 
WakeandBake said:
I know the argument you are making and it is worthy of discussion, but in this case you and the GOP tax bill you are trolling/glibly JCDing is using deductions like the mortgage interest deduction and the state/local tax deduction to pay for cuts to corporate and to keep the highest income tax brackets where they are, are they not? The gimmick here is to give the illusion of tax cuts for everyone. Smoke and mirrors.

Just have testicles/ovaries and level with Americans about it.
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The thing is they are giving tax cuts to most people. It's not smoke and mirrors, it's real. Take off the blinders. Most people are saving a couple grand. 10 years out is still unknown, however.
 
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So if everybody gets a tax break who pays for it?
 
PhDeac said:
So if everybody gets a tax break who pays for it?
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The national credit card, and some Hollywood elites. The owners of my company are out about $100k cause they can't write off the taxes on their multi-million dollar homes and california income taxes anymore. All of their non-highly compensated employees save some money.

I'm just noting lazy liberal whining is lazy. Run some numbers. The merits of this bill warrant more honest discussion.
 
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My taxes would go up and I'm not rich, I'm a middle class homeowner.

I don't mind paying taxes, but you know there is a way to give meaningful tax relief to middle and lower classes that is permanent and also to raise revenues to bring value to America that is not this bill right? You can acknowledge this thing is a gift to billionaires and corps with a few token crumbs for some in the middle class for a couple of years who will lose medical and education deductions as well. I know you are cherry picking numbers for your troll so yeah
 
WakeandBake said:
My taxes would go up and I'm not rich, I'm a middle class homeowner.

I don't mind paying taxes, but you know there is a way to give meaningful tax relief to middle and lower classes that is permanent and also to raise revenues to bring value to America that is not this bill right? You can acknowledge this thing is a gift to billionaires and corps with a few token crumbs for some in the middle class for a couple of years who will lose medical and education deductions as well. I know you are cherry picking numbers for your troll so yeah
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Even taking the JCT analysis the biggest tax breaks aren't for the millionaires, but they're for the upper middle class. Pretty much all of us who post on a wake forest message board "I'm not rich" whose probably in the upper quintile of income nationally.
 
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palmab03 said:
The national credit card, and some Hollywood elites. The owners of my company are out about $100k cause they can't write off the taxes on their multi-million dollar homes and california income taxes anymore. All of their non-highly compensated employees save some money.

I'm just noting lazy liberal whining is lazy. Run some numbers. The merits of this bill warrant more honest discussion.
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Can't add to the national credit card more than a decade out. So who pays for the huge cut in corporate taxes after ten years?
 
avalon said:
Can't add to the national credit card more than a decade out. So who pays for the huge cut in corporate taxes after ten years?
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The total business tax reform is only $40 billion in savings for businesses about 10 years out annually. In looking at the details it looks like the true answer to this question is its a repeal of ACA mandate.
 
palmab03 said:
The total business tax reform is only $40 billion in savings for businesses about 10 years out annually. In looking at the details it looks like the true answer to this question is its a repeal of ACA mandate.
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So they pay for it by cutting 13 million off healthcare coverage. Which will cause everyone's premiums to increase because there will be a lot of healthy people losing their insurance.

Also they are changing the way inflation is calculated, so when the tax cuts expire after seven years, everyone's taxes will actually be higher than they are under current law.

Seems like a terrible deal to see higher premiums and a permanent tax increase in order to get some tax cuts for the first few years, IMO.
 
palmab03 said:
Even taking the JCT analysis the biggest tax breaks aren't for the millionaires, but they're for the upper middle class. Pretty much all of us who post on a wake forest message board "I'm not rich" whose probably in the upper quintile of income nationally.
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Hmm, then why would mine go up?
 
avalon said:
So they pay for it by cutting 13 million off healthcare coverage. Which will cause everyone's premiums to increase because there will be a lot of healthy people losing their insurance.

Also they are changing the way inflation is calculated, so when the tax cuts expire after seven years, everyone's taxes will actually be higher than they are under current law.

Seems like a terrible deal to see higher premiums and a permanent tax increase in order to get some tax cuts for the first few years, IMO.
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Remember, no smoke and mirrors
 
WakeandBake said:
Hmm, then why would mine go up?
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You need to have a pretty expensive house for it to go up for you. I thought you'd generally support plans that increase taxes on those with a pretty expensive house and decrease them for those without them.
 
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