• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Biggest Reform EVER passed thread

before we jump into this, are you still referring to 10 years down the road (2027) and ignoring completely the 10 years before that?

Not ignoring completely (it's pretty bad for the first 10 years too), but I think it's more important to consider the long term and permanent effects of the bill. Tax reform is hard, and I think it's nuts to just assume something will be fixed later, especially since even the "fix" in this case would be terrible. But if you want to talk about the early distributional analyses, they are fair game too.

DPGjgBnU8AAqoZP.jpg:large
 
1. Will the plan lower the taxes for most people short term, probably yes but we will say yes.
2. Are those cuts actual reform and permanent, no.
3. Are the biggest cuts for the wealthy, yes. It makes sense though because they pay the most.
4. Does the extra 1-2% after tax income actually matter, could argue that it’s yes. However an extra 6,000 when you make 300,000 is who cares money and the amount drops dramatically as you make less.
5. Are those cuts paid for, unless you believe in fake growth numbers, no.
6. Since they aren’t paid for the deficit goes up by a lot, that’s suppose to matter but let’s say it doesn’t.
7. Even though the deficit we are saying doesn’t matter it does need to be less than 1.5 trillion so to get that you now cut services for poor and middle class, like healthcare, Medicare, etc...
8. Once the tax cuts pass the deficit will be considered important again, so republicans will try and gut programs to reduce spending, because taxes were cut and deficit its important again!!!!
9. When programs and services get cut the meager tax cuts for the middle class dont make up for greater spending on services previously provided by the government. So for lower income individuals it’s a wash if not worse.
10. The cuts to services because deficit!!!! Don’t matter to the biggest gainers in the cuts, corporations and rich people.
11. So in the end you have tax cuts that lead to deficit increase that leads to spending cuts that disproportionately effect lower income that results in no net gain so rich people can save a shit ton of money and well off people can add the entertainment package to their new car purchase.
12. This line of thinking only applies if conservatives return to caring about the deficit and then look to control it through spending cuts, they will.

Well I just broke my leg a few weeks back. I went out of network cause it was the weekend and I wanted it fixed, and it ended up costing me $230. I suppose forcing the country to buy something they might not need/want isn't that great.
 
Not ignoring completely (it's pretty bad for the first 10 years too), but I think it's more important to consider the long term and permanent effects of the bill. Tax reform is hard, and I think it's nuts to just assume something will be fixed later, especially since even the "fix" in this case would be terrible. But if you want to talk about the early distributional analyses, they are fair game too.

DPGjgBnU8AAqoZP.jpg:large

Ignoring past 2027 (The Republicans would make that permanent as well if the dems would support it on a bipartisan basis) It looks like the top .01 get about the same benefit of the rest of the quintiles.

The lowest and second lowest quintiles are skewed by the ACA mandate issue and how they're treating it. A married couple making $30,000 a year's tax bill goes down from $1,100 to $600. So that looks like goofy math to me.

For the 95-99.9% brackets, it looks like they're encouraging people to start their own businesses. That seems like a good tax reform strategy that should actually "trickle down" some.
 
Last edited:
Ignoring past 2027 (The Republicans would make that permanent as well if the dems would support it on a bipartisan basis) It looks like the top .01 get about the same benefit of the rest of the quintiles.

The lowest and second lowest quintiles are skewed by the ACA mandate issue and how they're treating it. A married couple making $30,000 a year's tax bill goes down from $2,500 to $600, which is a big change for them. So that looks like goofy math to me.

For the 95-99.9% brackets, it looks like they're encouraging people to start their own businesses. That seems like a good tax reform strategy that should actually "trickle down" some.

The TPC analysis ignores the individual mandate repeal, which is why they still show a tax break at the lowest income levels.
 
Last edited:
Ignoring past 2027 (The Republicans would make that permanent as well if the dems would support it on a bipartisan basis) It looks like the top .01 get about the same benefit of the rest of the quintiles.

The lowest and second lowest quintiles are skewed by the ACA mandate issue and how they're treating it. A married couple making $30,000 a year's tax bill goes down from $1,100 to $600. So that looks like goofy math to me.

For the 95-99.9% brackets, it looks like they're encouraging people to start their own businesses. That seems like a good tax reform strategy that should actually "trickle down" some.

Can’t wait for all those people to start their businesses with that extra $2000 a year. Imagine how easy it’s going to be to get lemonade.
 

Under the Senate bill, at least 29 percent of households would pay higher taxes in 2027 than they would under current law. Among the bottom three-fifths of income-earners, 33 percent would pay higher taxes in 2027.

Do you think the average low income person really is going to turn down saving now for potentially paying more 10 years from now? These are the same people who are paying 250% interest rates on payday loans.
 
You can’t really say 95-99% encouraging to start their own business when the 99% is like 500,000 and the max after tax income increase in that chart is 3.5%. Know a lot of business that only have a 17500 dollar startup fee. That shit is going straight to the markets to hopefully get a nice 10% yearly return.
 
There is so much dumb in the bill too. Like how does this child tax credit make any sense?

11-15-17tax-f1.png
 
Do you think the average low income person really is going to turn down saving now for potentially paying more 10 years from now? These are the same people who are paying 250% interest rates on payday loans.

You’ll take your crumbs and be happy. Please ignore the rich who are getting the full loaf.
 
I think the other way to look at the tax bill would be if giving the middle class and poor 1% gain and it’s so good for them why not a 5% gain and give nothing for the upper class/rich.
 
Trump’s Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

Quote
————
...Given such overwhelming support for raising, not cutting, taxes on the wealthy, it makes sense that President Donald Trump and his allies in Congress would present their tax plan as benefiting the middle class rather than the rich. It’s about “people who are low- and middle-income,” says House Speaker Paul Ryan, “not about people who are really high-income earners getting a break.” Trump has even claimed “the rich will not be gaining at all with this plan.”

Unfortunately, those are bald-faced lies...
————
 
Last edited:
Trump’s Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

Quote
————
...Given such overwhelming support for raising, not cutting, taxes on the wealthy, it makes sense that President Donald Trump and his allies in Congress would present their tax plan as benefiting the middle class rather than the rich. It’s about “people who are low- and middle-income,” says House Speaker Paul Ryan, “not about people who are really high-income earners getting a break.” Trump has even claimed “the rich will not be gaining at all with this plan.”

Unfortunately, those are bald-faced lies...
————

It appears as if as long as a headline contains a hyperbole you're all in. We had a meeting with our tax planners this year and for the first year in history we're looking to accelerate our corporate company income opposed to deferring it, cause our owners, who are in the .01%, are significantly worse off next year (mainly by not being able to deduct california state taxes)
 
GOP tax plan: 5 ways the proposed tax cuts could impact you

Quote
————
...Called the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the tax reform proposal is billed by Republican lawmakers as a path to job creation and higher wages for workers, even though there's little historical evidence that corporate tax cuts trickle down into higher pay for employees. Nevertheless, some low-wage and middle-class Americans are likely to benefit, thanks to a higher personal standard deduction and lower tax rates, although many may end up with fewer deductions, especially those in high-tax states. Middle-class gains may be scanty compared with those enjoyed by corporations and the wealthy, critics said.

"There is no evidence to suggest this plan as a whole will be positive for middle-income workers and much to suggest that when this is complete, it will be a significant net negative," said Gene Sperling, a former director of the National Economic Council and Assistant to the President for Economic Policy in The White House, on a conference call to discuss the tax plan. "You can lower somebody's taxes, but people understand there is no free lunch."

The tax cuts are unlikely to be offset by equivalent spending reductions, which could cause the federal budget deficit and debt to grow, Moody's Investors Service senior vice president Sarah Carlson said by email.

"It is unlikely that the increased taxable income from higher growth will compensate for the proposed cuts in tax rates," she added.

Many of the provisions in the proposal will help President Donald Trump's businesses and boost his personal income, said Seth Hanlon, a senior fellow at the liberal-leaning Center for American Progress. Those include the phase out of the estate tax and lower rates for pass-through income.

"It's almost as if this bill was written by Donald Trump's accountant," Hanlon said.

Like any major piece of legislation, the House GOP tax plan is likely to change as lawmakers wrangle over the details and as special interests weigh in. Passage of the bill is not assured, even with Republicans controlling both chambers of Congress and as Mr. Trump pushes legislators to deliver a measure by year's end. For now, the proposal amounts to the biggest change in U.S. tax law in decades. Here are five key takeaways:

Who benefits most? The tax plan is billed by the GOP as providing a break to the middle class, but critics say the benefits will overwhelmingly be enjoyed by corporations and the rich. That's because the tax rate on corporations will be reduced to 20 percent from 35 percent, allowing the country's biggest companies to retain more of their profits.

Economists say there's little relationship between post-tax profit rates and business investment that boosts productivity, while productivity and wages have grown faster in periods of higher taxes, according to the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute.

How would the richest Americans fare under the bill? The GOP plan keeps the highest individual income tax bracket for the country's top earners at 39.6 percent. But critics say the proposal still provides a windfall to rich families because it will double the limit on the estate tax to $10 million and then phase it out after six years.

The proposal also calls for a 25 percent rate for pass-through businesses, such as sole proprietorships and partnerships, rather than paying the individual tax rate. For the rich -- who are more likely than the middle class to employ such tax structures -- that could produce a sizable savings.

The proposal also does away with the alternative minimum tax, which will help reduce taxes on some higher-income taxpayers...
————
 
So in summary, It helps rich people and poor people. The uber rich and the middle class get the same %. The only group that gets more than others are all the people who graduate from schools like Wake Forest University. I'm just saying that sounds great to me.
 
How does it help poor people? The tax cuts for the poor are chump change to square the big cuts for the corporations. How do you not see this?
 
How does it help poor people? The tax cuts for the poor are chump change to square the big cuts for the corporations. How do you not see this?

The average kid outta college who's 25-30 years old making $60k a year saves about $1,500 a year. The couple living together makes $3k more.

Yes, its crumbs for the average wake forest graduate in their 30's and 40's arguing on a message board, but that's not "crumbs" to them. It probably raises their disposable income by 25%+. In my company of about 80 employees, this clearly helps all (And I mean ALL) the people who make less than $100k, and hurts those that make over $150k. Its pretty much what you want it to do, with a few bullshit things like the estate tax thing or the AMT which the articles you are linking over-emphasizes. In a compromise you have to eat one or two things you don't like. Throwing a temper tantrum that goes against the benefit of 90% of the voters for the next 10 years is dumb dumb dumb.
 
Last edited:
Why can’t you just take NyQuil and chill like normal people with strep?
 
Back
Top