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Bill Self

IAppreciateIt said:
Self is the best at recruiting a team, not just taking the best or highest-ranked players.
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He and the rest of the staff do the best job in the country getting raw big guys and turning them into mega-studs by their junior seasons. They have the best frontcourt in the country every single year.
 
deacvision7 said:
Roy Williams at Kansas 1988-2003 (15 seasons): 418-101, .805. 4 Final Fours, 9 Regular season conf. champs, 4 Conference Tournament Champs


Bill Self at Kansas 2003-present (in 9th season): 251-49, .837. 1 NCAA Championship. 1 Final Four. 7 regular season conf. champs, 5 Conference Tournament Champs
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Would have thought he'd been to more than 1 Final Four in that stretch.

Just think, if Memphis could hit their free throws, he'd have very little to show for those gaudy regular season stats (other than a claim to a vacated title) :)
 
Self is no doubt a monster recruiter and a good coach. I still question his postseason performance. He had a lot of early outs with some very good Illinois teams, and despite winning a NC in '08 he only has one final four despite the talent he's had.

Weber on the other hand is a very good coach but a mediocre recruiter. He took Self's Illinois team with Deron Williams, Luther Head and Dee Brown (which had lost in the 2nd round the year before under Self) to the final four. Obviously since then he hasn't done as well since he hasn't recruited well though.
 
wfumike02 said:
Self is no doubt a monster recruiter and a good coach. I still question his postseason performance. He had a lot of early outs with some very good Illinois teams, and despite winning a NC in '08 he only has one final four despite the talent he's had.

Weber on the other hand is a very good coach but a mediocre recruiter. He took Self's Illinois team with Deron Williams, Luther Head and Dee Brown (which had lost in the 2nd round the year before under Self) to the final four. Obviously since then he hasn't done as well since he hasn't recruited well though.
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I really don't know how this myth still lives.

I'm not saying that Kansas is striking out on every class, but check out the RSCI #s of the players on this team. The highest is #25 and (ETA: also #27, Withey)a #28. Then it's #49, then like #75, and that's it for RSCI top 100. I agree that at the beginning of his time at KU, you could say he's just rolling the ball out on the floor and letting the players take care of things. But he (along with Danny Manning) have done an excellent job of taking what talent they do have and maximizing it, along with developing players (especially bigs) extremely well.

On the other hand, Weber's recruiting has actually picked up quite a bit since 2009 and his teams are still shit. That Brown, Deron, Head team made him look like a far better coach than he actually is. Watch some Illinois games some time and marvel at all the stupidity on the floor, especially when they regularly don't get shots off at the end of games or the end of the shot clock.

And he's an asshat.
 
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I wonder if Danny Manning is looking to be a head coach somewhere.
 
It will be interesting to see how Bill Self does in another 10 years or so. Granted, the name Kansas recruits itself, but right now he's still out there hustling on the recruiting trail and isn't opposed to doing what most other big programs do in order to get the best recruits - taking the one-and-dones, hiring Mario Chalmers' father as a member of the staff for three years, etc. I just wonder if at some point as he gets older he'll go the Gary Williams/Coach K route and get tired of dealing with all of that crap, and their success will take a hit accordingly.

Oh, and just to depress everyone I was looking at Mario Chalmers' wikipedia page as I was typing this to make sure I had the story straight about his dad (I did) - the page also talks about how his final college choices were UNC, Arizona, GT and Wake.
 
PhDeac said:
I wonder if Danny Manning is looking to be a head coach somewhere.
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Not that I have any real idea, but I get the impression he's content to be there. He has a ton of money (lives in the same neighborhood as Self but in a bigger house), and is idolized on campus and with the fanbase a la how we are with Childress. Has to be a pretty big ego stroke to have all of these randoms still wanting their picture with you 25 years later.
 
Kansas probably takes more non-top 100 recruits than any other elite program in the country. What they've gotten out of guys like Christian Moody, Brady Morningstar and Connor Teahen is most impressive.
 
Have no idea if it's an act, but Self comes across as very down to earth self-depricating guy when he is interviewed. Among the power programs, he is the most likeable coach from afar (I would put Roy Williams in the same catagory). OTOH, Pitino, Calapari, K and even Boeheim not so much.
 
Pilchard said:
Have no idea if it's an act, but Self comes across as very down to earth self-depricating guy when he is interviewed. Among the power programs, he is the most likeable coach from afar (I would put Roy Williams in the same catagory). OTOH, Pitino, Calapari, K and even Boeheim not so much.
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Wait, so you're curious if Self's schtick is an act but not Roy's?
 
vadimivich said:
Illinois post Self:

2004: #12
2005: #2
2006: #11
2007: #33
2008: #40
2009: #24
2010: #53
2011: #18
2012: #38

No comparison. Once Self's monster recruiting classes left - Illinois has kind of just been a bubble team every year.
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What was Roy while at Kansas? He built it up to a monster that made many Final Four's while he was there.
 
PhDeac said:
Wake destroyed Kansas at the Joel awhile back.

Just wanted to think about that for a second.
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Was my first basketball game at Wake freshman year. I happenned to be wearing a blue shirt for some reason. We rushed the court and I ended up right next to RoK, when they zoomed in on him in sportscenter. I was easy to spot as I was the only one wearing blue.

Won by 34 vs Hinrich and Collison.
 
PhDeac said:
Wake destroyed Kansas at the Joel awhile back.

Just wanted to think about that for a second.
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They've returned the favor at least twice, including the year after Kentucky ripped us a new one in the NCAAs.
 
Rolfe said:
Not that I have any real idea, but I get the impression he's content to be there. He has a ton of money (lives in the same neighborhood as Self but in a bigger house), and is idolized on campus and with the fanbase a la how we are with Childress. Has to be a pretty big ego stroke to have all of these randoms still wanting their picture with you 25 years later.
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Yeah. That's why I wonder.
 
Grew up in Kansas and older bro is a KU alumnus and crazy for all things Jayhawk. He has casually blown this year off as a rebuilding year.

I saw a game in AFH a long, long time ago. Think it was in 1984, but might have been 1985. Wayman Tisdale and OU, who was ranked in the top 5 or so at the time, traveled to Lawrence and were upset by the Jayhawks, who weren't that good that year. I was pretty pissed, but I was also like 12. Just looked, and it was early 1985 during the 84-85 season. It was the only conference loss for OU that year. A few months later, I saw them beat ISU in the conference tourney final. They struggled in the NCAA tourney, but advanced to the E8 before being ousted by Memphis St. in a season Memphis would later have to vacate.
 
TheReff said:
What was Roy while at Kansas? He built it up to a monster that made many Final Four's while he was there.
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KU has traditionally been a solid hoops program. Larry Brown brought it back from a rather moribund first part of the 80s and handed that over to Roy, who to his credit kept the ball rolling.
 
palmab03 said:
Was my first basketball game at Wake freshman year. I happenned to be wearing a blue shirt for some reason. We rushed the court and I ended up right next to RoK, when they zoomed in on him in sportscenter. I was easy to spot as I was the only one wearing blue.

Won by 34 vs Hinrich and Collison.
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Haha. I was on SC that night holding a sign that said "We are why Roy rejected UNC."

Good times. I miss those times.
 
Dented said:
Everyone knows that Roy is nowhere near the coach that Self is.
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Right... that's why Roy has 2 national titles and Self has 1... and why Roy has been to 7 Final Fours to Self's 1.

Even if you're just comparing them both since they got to their most recent gigs... Roy, 2 titles, 3 final fours; Self, 1 title, 1 final four.

And Roy's nowhere near the coach? Ok.
 
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