BillBrasky Memorial Political Chat Thread

[Biff Tannen]

I think Ph is upset because the cops served as teachers at short staffed schools for a couple of days instead of a group of professors from some soft science department at the University of Oklahoma, which is only 10 miles away.

 

[PhDeac]

Read my post. None of what you said prevents an officer from doing the job as a citizen instead of as an uniformed officer. Showing up as a cop is a fucking show of force, not actually attempting to do good in the world.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Well if the everyday people of this dystopia valued elementary schools, the cops wouldn't have to make decisions about what to wear.

Also, if I had to guess, those officers were likely on duty and could have been pulled from the classroom at a moment's notice to respond to a call that they would have been expected to be in uniform for.

 

[Kory]

i'd be fine with any county employee that doesn't have the authority to deploy state violence with ubiquity in the classroom, imo. a volunteer firefighter, even.

 

[Louis Gossett Jr]

It’s more an example of towns having too many cops than anything else. They probably showed up in uniform because they showed up for their normal shift and were assigned to be subs for that day. You are reading way too much into this. Hell back in the day in my small town you just had a list of classroom stay at home moms that would come sub a class, nothing else needed except being a mom.

 

[PhDeac]

Well if the everyday people of this dystopia valued elementary schools, the cops wouldn't have to make decisions about what to wear.

Also, if I had to guess, those officers were likely on duty and could have been pulled from the classroom at a moment's notice to respond to a call that they would have been expected to be in uniform for.

...thus leaving those students without a teacher. That doesn't seem like a legitimate solution. It supports my point that this is just a show of force.

Again, what would be wrong with off-duty cops doing the same thing in khakis and a polo working as a helpful citizen? Why an on-duty cop in uniform who could bolt at any moment?

 

[forensicdeac]

Read my post. None of what you said prevents an officer from doing the job as a citizen instead of as an uniformed officer. Showing up as a cop is a fucking show of force, not actually attempting to do good in the world.

On one hand, it is great that these officers can stand in during a shortage of substitutes so that the schools can stay open.

On the other hand, they should have been wearing business casual instead of their uniforms. This now just comes off as a PR stunt so the "good will" is lost on me.

Note: I was a certified police officer for 18 years.

 

[Kory]

could have been pulled from the classroom at a moment's notice to respond to a call

why put cops there if there's a likelihood of them leaving in a hurry? seems like that choice has the (very likely, since I assume on-duty cops are somewhat busy) potential to actually be more disruptive when the kids freak out about how their sub just ran out of the room leaving nobody to supervise them, lol.

 

[Kory]

like the whole point (arguably the only requirement) of a sub is that you'll be a reliable presence in the classroom.

 

[Biff Tannen]

i'd be fine with any county employee that doesn't have the authority to deploy state violence with ubiquity in the classroom, imo. a volunteer firefighter, even.

There's nothing to stop someone from being a volunteer firefighter and a certified substitute teacher. Although, Moore OK does not have volunteer firepeople.

 

[Biff Tannen]

why put cops there if there's a likelihood of them leaving in a hurry? seems like that choice has the (very likely, since I assume on-duty cops are somewhat busy) potential to actually be more disruptive when the kids freak out about how their sub just ran out of the room leaving nobody to supervise them, lol.

Well that's clearly not how they see it in Dystopia, OK.

 

[PhDeac]

I think Ph is upset because the cops served as teachers at short staffed schools for a couple of days instead of a group of professors from some soft science department at the University of Oklahoma, which is only 10 miles away.

There are literally thousands of grad students, post-docs, and adjuncts who are more than qualified to do this work and could. There are literally tens of thousands of undergrads who could. I was a substitute teacher in undergrad when I went home for break.

It’s more an example of towns having too many cops than anything else. They probably showed up in uniform because they showed up for their normal shift and were assigned to be subs for that day. You are reading way too much into this. Hell back in the day in my small town you just had a list of classroom stay at home moms that would come sub a class, nothing else needed except being a mom.

Good point. This is certainly a PR stunt.

 

[Kory]

There's nothing to stop someone from being a volunteer firefighter and a certified substitute teacher.

sure - but I thought part of the whole kerfuffle here was that these cops aren't certified. they're just there in lieu of certified educators because it's assumed cops are safe and reliable individuals when operating in an official representative of the state, which uh...

 

[Biff Tannen]

Yeah, I'm sure the City of Moore can just conscript a few dozen OU students and employees when teachers and staff go down with Covid and the flu. Positive test rate in Oklahoma is currently 41% by the way.

 

[Kory]

Yeah, I'm sure the City of Moore can just conscript a few dozen OU students and employees when teachers and staff go down with Covid and the flu. Positive test rate in Oklahoma is currently 41% by the way.

sounds good. it'd be better than cops, imo.

 

[PhDeac]

LOL at "conscript." They can recruit them and pay them a reasonable rate to convince them to do it.

Honestly, a city near a university should have no problem establishing a pool of substitutes.

 

[Biff Tannen]

There's a nationwide teacher shortage. But, it's no problem.

Oh look, Moore schools have a well developed student-teacher program.

https://www.mooreschools.com/cms/li...eacher Partnership and Mentorship Program.pdf

But,

"MPS has felt the impact of an increase in absences for both our employees and students, but not all absences are COVID-related,” the district statement said. “That said, other districts are having a challenge filling absences for teachers, administrators and possibly other support areas. Each of our 35 school sites follow Moore Public Schools health and safety protocols; however, we are flexible enough to look at each site’s need individually, and make the best decision with their site’s outlook in-mind. At this time, we will continue to hold in-person learning. We have managed the current absenteeism challenge being faced by all districts head-on, with our administrators and professional support team members filling in for positions everywhere around the district from cafeterias to substitutes in classrooms.

https://www.news9.com/story/61e0867...-continues-inperson-learning-amid-covid-spike

 

[PhDeac]

Biff, you still haven't explained why an on-duty uniformed cop is the best way to alleviate this even compared to an off-duty business casual cop.

 

[Biff Tannen]

So do you want to pay cops time and a half to work as substitute teachers or have them do it while they're on duty ?

 

[deactherunner]

The schools are all in Moore, OK.

You're right, I misread the results of my Apple Creek search.

A google search shows that the average hourly rate for a Moore, OK police officer is $21/hr, while a substitute teacher is $12/hr. Wonder if they'd still have a substitute teacher shortage if the latter was closer to the former.