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Black Church Burned -Vote Trump written on it

RJKarl said:
Let me break this down for the simos, knowell, DeacMan, bob segment of the board. Man, just thinking that DeacMan has fallen this far is staggering.

"What's amazing here is how the wacko crew has no problem understanding how a pissed off black guy can try to throw off an investigation into his crime" -how anyone can't understand this is staggering. "the wacko crew" = the bobs, DeacMan, simos, knowell.

The second part of that "no problem understanding" how can't you understand this- You can understand

"how a pissed off black guy can try to throw off an investigation into his crime" - We now believe the person who set fire to the black church was a pissed off black guy- you don't need to be Stephen Hawking to under this part. Painting Vote Trump was meant to throw off the cops. Few black people voted for Trump and many white hate groups openly supported Trump.

Again, you don't have to be a genius to understand that part of the post.

"The fact that a crazy murderer is Muslim and says the ISIS is different than this black guy saying Trump. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..." As is the case that a black guy just used Trump as a way to deflect the real reason for his crime, a Muslim can scream ISIS as a way to deflect from his real reason for committing a crime.

Here's an example. The killer in Orlando screamed ISIS to the cops. However, there are multiple reports of him being that club several times failing at trying to pick-up gay men and his ex-wife has told reporters that he had mental issues. But to the lazy wacko crew just saying ISIS or being Mulsim make it terrorism.

I am truly sad to see how far DeacMan has fallen. To be so directly and intimately aligned with the most extreme posters makes me shake my head, sigh and wonder how he can get help.
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It is truly astounding that you still cannot write in coherent sentences even when asked to provide an explanation for an incoherent sentence.

I don't recall ever expounding about my thoughts as to the actual motivations that drove the crimes you cite above.

It is good to know, however, that you have figured out not just my thoughts on the motivations for these crimes but also the motives of the criminals themselves (even the one's who are dead and can offer no further input as to their motivations). Truly fascinating.

It also could be, just maybe, that motivations are plural and not just singular. Let's take the case of Mr. Mateen. Was Mr. Mateen motivated by bigotry? If so, might it have been caused by his father's views on gays? Were those views the result of his father's religious beliefs? Why did he pledge his loyalty to the leader of ISIS? Did he do it to lash back out at his father or his sense of how the religion perceives gays - i.e. to cast Islam in a negative light? Did he hate that he didn't meet the expectations of Islam as viewed by his father and want to make the ultimate twisted statement of loyalty? Was he motivated by self-loathing? Did he feel guilty about not being able to be faithful to his wife? Was he motivated because he couldn't get a date with some guy he lusted after? Was he motivated by other factors? Did he hate his job? Was it all down to mental illness?

Thankfully you are here to answer all these questions (and perhaps others) for a dead man you never met.
 
DeacMan said:
It is truly astounding that you still cannot write in coherent sentences even when asked to provide an explanation for an incoherent sentence.

I don't recall ever expounding about my thoughts as to the actual motivations that drove the crimes you cite above.

It is good to know, however, that you have figured out not just my thoughts on the motivations for these crimes but also the motives of the criminals themselves (even the one's who are dead and can offer no further input as to their motivations). Truly fascinating.

It also could be, just maybe, that motivations are plural and not just singular. Let's take the case of Mr. Mateen. Was Mr. Mateen motivated by bigotry? If so, might it have been caused by his father's views on gays? Were those views the result of his father's religious beliefs? Why did he pledge his loyalty to the leader of ISIS? Did he do it to lash back out at his father or his sense of how the religion perceives gays - i.e. to cast Islam in a negative light? Did he hate that he didn't meet the expectations of Islam as viewed by his father and want to make the ultimate twisted statement of loyalty? Was he motivated by self-loathing? Did he feel guilty about not being able to be faithful to his wife? Was he motivated because he couldn't get a date with some guy he lusted after? Was he motivated by other factors? Did he hate his job? Was it all down to mental illness?

Thankfully you are here to answer all these questions (and perhaps others) for a dead man you never met.
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Snark, snark, snark...what one does when he realizes he has lost.

Show me where I said what the Orlando shooter's motivation was. All I did was show how screaming ISIS could have been like the black guy painting Vote Trump.
 
RJKarl said:
Snark, snark, snark...what one does when he realizes he has lost.

Show me where I said what the Orlando shooter's motivation was. All I did was show how screaming ISIS could have been like the black guy painting Vote Trump.
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The idea you are proclaiming "victory" on this thread is just laughable. Never mind how it started, you are now crowing about telling everyone something "could" be true. No shit sherlock. You could have written "The Pope could believe eating puppies is a good idea for the same reasons the Korean dog peddlers in the Moran market do." That too could be true.

Telling folks something could be true is worthless unless it advances a broader point. And in this case you seem to now be pivoting to tell all of us a Muslim might yell ISIS to detract from his real motives in committing a crime. And you compare this to the angry black guy who torched a church after writing Vote Trump on a wall?

Per you the black guy wanted to "throw off the cops" because "few black people voted for Trump and many white hate groups openly supported Trump." Presumably the idea is the black guy could evade capture by creating the sense a group many find deplorable with whom no reasonable person would associate him committed the act.

How does that reasonably compare to Mateen. He is heard on a 911 call while he is killing 49 people pledging himself to ISIS. He isn't doing that to evade capture. He knows he is going to die that night. And he knows he will forever be viewed as an Islamic terrorist for what he said - i.e. he obviously chose to be known as an Islamic terrorist.

Putting aside all the other evidence he was radicalized (such as the fact he watched hours upon hours of jihadist terrorism videos online), it sort of begs a rather obvious question. Even if he had other motives, why would he choose to shroud himself as an Islamic terrorist? Could he not have come up with any number of other covers? So why ISIS?
 
DeacMan said:
The idea you are proclaiming "victory" on this thread is just laughable. Never mind how it started, you are now crowing about telling everyone something "could" be true. No shit sherlock. You could have written "The Pope could believe eating puppies is a good idea for the same reasons the Korean dog peddlers in the Moran market do." That too could be true.

Me talking about something "could be true"? that is so rich. Your entire position on this thread is about "what could happen". You cite a couple of polls as proving what Muslims in America "could do" I've been the one saying "what have they done?"


Telling folks something could be true is worthless unless it advances a broader point. And in this case you seem to now be pivoting to tell all of us a Muslim might yell ISIS to detract from his real motives in committing a crime. And you compare this to the angry black guy who torched a church after writing Vote Trump on a wall?

Per you the black guy wanted to "throw off the cops" because "few black people voted for Trump and many white hate groups openly supported Trump." Presumably the idea is the black guy could evade capture by creating the sense a group many find deplorable with whom no reasonable person would associate him committed the act.

It did throw police off for a while.

How does that reasonably compare to Mateen. He is heard on a 911 call while he is killing 49 people pledging himself to ISIS. He isn't doing that to evade capture. He knows he is going to die that night. And he knows he will forever be viewed as an Islamic terrorist for what he said - i.e. he obviously chose to be known as an Islamic terrorist.

So you think a mentally disturbed person, who has just systematically gunned down 49 people is rational. You don't think about his wife stating he had mental issues. You neglect the multiple people who said he came to that club to pick up men. Things aren't often as black and white as 9/11.

Putting aside all the other evidence he was radicalized (such as the fact he watched hours upon hours of jihadist terrorism videos online), it sort of begs a rather obvious question. Even if he had other motives, why would he choose to shroud himself as an Islamic terrorist? Could he not have come up with any number of other covers? So why ISIS?
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If it's between being a crazy person and theoretically being a martyr, one would likely choose the latter. At least he'd be remembered by someone. Again, all I'm saying is it's not as black and white you want it be. Due to his death, we'll never know the full answer.

You also state as fact what happened in other countries as being predictive of what will happen here in spite of wide, deep and serious underlying differences in Muslims communities in the US and Europe.
 
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DeacMan said:
The idea you are proclaiming "victory" on this thread is just laughable. ***
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Welcome to the Tunnels, home of the "Undepheateds." No defeat to resounding to avoid the result of a bias-confirming victory. All roads lead to vindication.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Welcome to the Tunnels, home of the "Undepheateds." No defeat to resounding to avoid the result of a bias-confirming victory. All roads lead to vindication.
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I think I would put my record on the Tunnels at about 11 wins, 45 losses.

What is your record?
 
Coach O said:
I think I would put my record on the Tunnels at about 11 wins, 45 losses.

What is your record?
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Coach, you're record is much better than that, but it doesn't approach PH's 10,549-0.
 
RJKarl said:
If it's between being a crazy person and theoretically being a martyr, one would likely choose the latter. At least he'd be remembered by someone. Again, all I'm saying is it's not as black and white you want it be. Due to his death, we'll never know the full answer.

You also state as fact what happened in other countries as being predictive of what will happen here in spite of wide, deep and serious underlying differences in Muslims communities in the US and Europe.
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Suffice to say anyone who murders 49 people in cold blood is going to be portrayed as "crazy".

So why'd he want to be remembered as an Islamic terrorist? Your answer now is it "likely
was a desire to be remembered as a martyr instead of as a crazy person. Or is it that you don't know.

All you do know is that he very publicly linked his crime to a religious ideology. And that is vastly different than an angry black guy wanting to lead people to suspect someone else did what he did.

You really want to engage in a debate that Mateen's crimes are not like what has happened in other countries?
 
Timothy McVeigh killed over 150 people including women and children in cold blood. He's not thought of as "crazy".

Although he didn't kill 50 people at once, Ted Bundy murdered dozens. He's not thought of as "crazy".

Eric Rudolph tried to kill hundreds of people at the Olympics. He's not considered "crazy".

We also know that Mateen's wife said he was mentally unstable. We also know he had been to that club and been rejected by several men. The difference between us is I thing there could be many factors and that we don't know all the answers. You think it's simple.

You are also using one deluded killer to extrapolate actions onto millions of people in the US who have not shown the same temperament as Muslims in Europe.

The lengths you go to in order to align all Muslims as the same shows a predilection to a strongly held belief. You can't admit that that people who have the same belief but hugely different backgrounds, living conditions and opportunities will act differently. You lump all Muslims into one pot.

Now, you'll change and say you don't. You are nothing, if not predictable.
 
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Ban an entire religion from a country.

Think of everyone of that religion as dangerous and evil.

Follow them all in case, someday one of the millions acts out.
 
This thread is almost as good as the infamous "It appears that we were had by a hoax" thread.
 
RJKarl said:
Ban an entire religion from a country.

Think of everyone of that religion as dangerous and evil.

Follow them all in case, someday one of the millions acts out.
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Not sure why you make these types of silly comments that are not tied to anything I've proposed or said.

You have purported Mateen "likely" pledged his allegiance to ISIS as a means to be considered a martyr instead of crazy. It still begs the question, why? Why is being associated with ISIS viewed as an acceptable outcome? Why was it viewed as acceptable in San Bernadino? Why in Berlin? Why are all these disparate attackers aligning themselves with a self-proclaimed theocratic body? Are they all using it as a very public cover for other motives? If so, why? Those are fair questions to ask. Are you suggesting none of these attacks were religiously motivated in any way?

And, to be clear, we all get a significant majority of Muslims globally think ISIS is evil.
 
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