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CBO - Ryan Plan will cost seniors $6000+/year

Reagan's policies were very good at the time. We were veering off the left side of the road at the time.

However, our taxation policy now is veering off the right side of the road, yet the Pub answer for everything is "hard right".
 
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Marietta Deac said:
Good idea but the government subcontracts much of its work out to the private sector which is not hiring.
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Yeah. That's part of the problem. Regardless, I wouldn't trust the private sector to take taxpayer money to hire workers and actually hire them. Whatever will work would require a drastic change to the current system. Eggs, omelets, and all that.

I watched Fareed Zakaria today (podcast) and he had the PepsiCo CEO on. She suggested something similar to my idea. Repatriate cash for 15% tax rate with 5% going into a retraining fund and to retrofit commercial buildings to be energy efficient. Basically we need short term plans to put people back to work.

I don't really care what we do as long as it's productive and efficient. I just know paying people long term unemployment to search for unicorns when we could pay them to be exterminators is ridiculous.
 
PhDeac said:
Yeah. That's part of the problem. Regardless, I wouldn't trust the private sector to take taxpayer money to hire workers and actually hire them. Whatever will work would require a drastic change to the current system. Eggs, omelets, and all that.

I watched Fareed Zakaria today (podcast) and he had the PepsiCo CEO on. She suggested something similar to my idea. Repatriate cash for 15% tax rate with 5% going into a retraining fund and to retrofit commercial buildings to be energy efficient. Basically we need short term plans to put people back to work.

I don't really care what we do as long as it's productive and efficient. I just know paying people long term unemployment to search for unicorns when we could pay them to be exterminators is ridiculous.
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I think you could "insource" some functions such as custodial, maintenance where they could report to an existing employee. If some computer jobs have been outsourced, they could be "insourced" as well.

We could look at a WPA-like program but I'm afraid it would be rife with bureaucracy and low on results.

Also, at some point these benefits will run out and there are not going to be anymore renewals IMHO.
 
WhatUTalkinBout Willis said:
Tax-exempt bonds - how on earth is that a loophole? It is fundraising for government projects. If you don't want the bonds to be issued, don't initiate the projects. And then tell all of the teacher's pension funds that invest in them that they have to throw their money in the market
Investments/Capital gains - how are they loopholes? because the rates are lower than ordinary income rates? Ordinary income rates are lower than estate tax rates, so why don't we raise everything up to estate tax levels?
Gift-Giving - Obama had the opportunity to fully eliminate or revamp the Estate and Gift Tax when he had full control of Congress and the prior structure had expired. He failed to take any action whatsoever; must not be that important then.
"Charitable" Donations - how is that a loophole? To get the deduction, you still have to give something away that, even at the top bracket, is worth roughly 2/3 more than the credit you get. Who would give away $1 for the sole purpose of getting a $.33 loophole?
Vacation Homes and Yachts - what about them? should they be illegal?
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None of the things you mentioned are "loopholes", they are blatantly permissible deductions/rates that apply equally to everyone. And I've never seen any rich person drop their taxable burden to $0 through those methods.
 
Marietta Deac said:
I think you could "insource" some functions such as custodial, maintenance where they could report to an existing employee. If some computer jobs have been outsourced, they could be "insourced" as well.

We could look at a WPA-like program but I'm afraid it would be rife with bureaucracy and low on results.

Also, at some point these benefits will run out and there are not going to be anymore renewals IMHO.
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Yeah, pretty much.

So between the two of us we've figured out that something has to be done and given plenty of reasons why the public sector and private sector are ill-equipped to do it.

And that in a nutshell is why things are going downhill.
 
PhDeac said:
Yeah, pretty much.

So between the two of us we've figured out that something has to be done and given plenty of reasons why the public sector and private sector are ill-equipped to do it.

And that in a nutshell is why things are going downhill.
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What is sad is that there are probably many people out there literally burning the midnight oil because they are doing what three people did two years ago.
When I was in corporate america, it happened to me more than once. One day I had two coworkers and was leaving at 6 and nine months later I'm the only one and I'm leaving at 9 and working weekends. No raise, hardly any thanks. Luckily I was able to find a better job but the economy was much better back then.
 
Johnny Utah said:
None of the things you mentioned are "loopholes", they are blatantly permissible deductions/rates that apply equally to everyone. And I've never seen any rich person drop their taxable burden to $0 through those methods.
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Loophole was a incorrect term. should have used "available tax deduction that only the top tier can take advantage of"
 
Obama had full control for about 2-3 months before Teddy got sick and Johnson had his stroke.

McConnell made every bill need 60 votes. His unprecented obstructionism took away Obama's majority in the Senate.

The Dems pussied out last year in not changing Senate rules from the 60 rule.
 
Marietta Deac said:
What is sad is that there are probably many people out there literally burning the midnight oil because they are doing what three people did two years ago.
When I was in corporate america, it happened to me more than once. One day I had two coworkers and was leaving at 6 and nine months later I'm the only one and I'm leaving at 9 and working weekends. No raise, hardly any thanks. Luckily I was able to find a better job but the economy was much better back then.
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I don't think that's sad necessarily. I think there was a lot of fluff in the economy based on excess. A few examples. A relative of mine owns an auto detailing business in Miami. High priced rims and stuff like that. Predictably business is bad and he's had to lay off several workers. Well in an efficient economy, an auto detailing business probably shouldn't be that successful.

Another example, a friend of mine works for as an engineer for a high end yacht builder. The company has gone from a few hundred employees a few years ago to him, the boss, and a few others at this point. They've gotten crushed by the uprising in the Middle East because a dictator or two have canceled their orders or stopped payment. I hate it for him personally, but I understand that his job was based on excess.

As I see it, the real problem is that there hasn't been enough growth in the economy from one person doing the work of three people to increase domestic hiring. I think a lot of owners have figured out that they can save money consistently by just not hiring. That's why all this talk about job creators is BS. What they're doing right now is what they'll do with lower taxes.

That's why I believe we're going to need new industries to emerge, not just more businesses in the same industries or just bigger versions of the same businesses. Not even the growth of IT and health care will be able to pick up the slack particularly to hire workers in their 50s who are realizing that they're 20 years away from retire but poorly trained for the modern job market.
 
WhatUTalkinBout Willis said:
Loophole was a incorrect term. should have used "available tax deduction that only the top tier can take advantage of"
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Okay, sounds good. So if we get rid of those items, do we also get to expand the "available tax deductions that only the lower tiers can take advantage of", so that everyone gets to take them? Things like student loan interest, childcare, earned income tax credit, etc? Because I will gladly give up any disparity in capital gains rates, municipal bonds, gifting, or my yacht if it means I can write off my student loan interest and childcare. Or does it only go one way?
 
I think taking away some of the tax deductions that greatly benefit the wealthy and limiting the amount everyone can deduct is a good balance.
 
PhDeac said:
I think taking away some of the tax deductions that greatly benefit the wealthy and limiting the amount everyone can deduct is a good balance.
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I think eliminating all deductions and lowering rates makes sense. Quit using the tax code for social engineering.
 
If you eliminate all deductions, for all people, then the RE market takes a huge hit as the value of homes will be devaststed.
 
Yep. That's actually good "social engineering". Provide fewer incentives for people to buy houses they can't afford.
 
RJKarl said:
If you eliminate all deductions, for all people, then the RE market takes a huge hit as the value of homes will be devaststed.
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If everyone loses the deduction across the board, how does the market take a hit? Everyone's relative purchasing power stays the same.
 
Johnny Utah said:
If everyone loses the deduction across the board, how does the market take a hit? Everyone's relative purchasing power stays the same.
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It will immiedately put tens of millions homeowners underwater for years to come.

The more recent your purchase is the more you are screwed as you have less or no equity.
 
Poorer Americans can't deduct any rent, get rid of the mortgage interest deduction now.
 
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