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Chat thread 95: old people can't hang anymore

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I grew up in a rural-ag community in California; zero chance I live there again. I haven't even been back in probably 6 years as my parents have typically traveled to where I live, especially after we had children. Once my parents retire and leave the area I cannot foresee a reason I would return to my hometown, unless my children had a strong desire to see the place I'm from. I live in Denver now and don't foresee moving any time soon as it provides a lot of 'city' amenities, though I do worry about climate change and water shortages and what effect that could have on Denver in my lifetime.
 
i imagine the parents who choose to move somewhere to foster a less-homogeneous experience are the type of parent that will develop resilient kids no matter where they are
 
TownieDeac said:
I'd take that a step further to suggest that there are some who so value that homogenous community they design their children's experience so as to ensure their life path will, largely, protect them from experiences that would broaden their perspectives or challenge whatever the parents' orthodoxy is.
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definitely

these are very complex issues because the flip side -- the parents (or non-parents) seeking diverse communities and valuing heterogeneity -- are a big factor in social problems like gentrification and related issues

it's all, in my opinion, based on extreme inequality that gives a small group of people options while others must react to the moves of that group

but still, the idea of moving to the homogenous suburbs for your kids' education just bugs me in what values it represents
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
definitely

these are very complex issues because the flip side -- the parents (or non-parents) seeking diverse communities and valuing heterogeneity -- are a big factor in social problems like gentrification and related issues

it's all, in my opinion, based on extreme inequality that gives a small group of people options while others must react to the moves of that group

but still, the idea of moving to the homogenous suburbs for your kids' education just bugs me in what values it represents
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it feels like we put too much impetus on personal actions for parents in either situation

for a parent who wants their kid to go to the "best schools" and uses that to drive their suburbs move, that's a big ask to be informed on school choice and uproot an urban life to live in a bland suburb for the sake of your children's future

for a parent who wants their kid to experience urban life and values a holistic education and diverse environment, to stick with the progressive ethos you've also got to be active in your local housing policy and be willing to fight for high density/subsidized/affordable housing that might devalue your own house; you've got to be willing to fight against NIMBYism and listen to local extant community priorities, etc. etc.

in both situations these feel to me to be a failure of govt to provide choice to parents that doesn't require full-on change your life and lifestyle sacrifices above and beyond normal parenting duties and civic participation.
 
IOW, if i start to volunteer with local groups in my gentrifying neighborhood, i should be wary of motivations that are trying to turn this neighborhood into just a white suburban clone within city bounds. where my priorities may be clean streets and sidewalks, protected bike lanes, community gardens, etc., existing neighborhood concerns might be drug treatment centers, public housing infrastructure, de-gentrifying permitting/business loans, etc. Because if I'm not willing to be part of this community and fight for its priorities first, I should just go to a suburb where the homogenization is already complete.
 
Your kids can get just as shitty an education in a homogenous setting as they can in a diverse setting.
 
i don't know; thanks to wife's job i interact with the white children of wealth and privilege pretty frequently and they seem fine even having grown up in isolated pockets. you can raise them to be good human beings even if they're not going to crappy public schools or living in non-gentrified neighborhoods.
 
TownieDeac said:
to be earnest for a minute

i don't relish the cost of raising kids in DC but i do like the idea that they can enjoy some of this country's finest museums/places of historical significance and parks and outdoor spaces in a diverse, beautiful, and progressive environment with good public transit, four seasons of weather, major sports teams, interesting global cuisine, etc. etc.
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I know I am old, old, old, and a rube, and you make it sound great, but D.C. is one of the last places I would think of if I was deciding where I wanted to raise a family.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i don't know; thanks to wife's job i interact with the white children of wealth and privilege pretty frequently and they seem fine even having grown up in isolated pockets. you can raise them to be good human beings even if they're not going to crappy public schools or living in non-gentrified neighborhoods.
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Certainly true, just puts more of an onus on the parents to get it right, which, without real world problems to work through, can be harder in the abstract than in real life to parent kids through
 
scooter84 said:
I know I am old, old, old, and a rube, and you make it sound great, but D.C. is one of the last places I would think of if I was deciding where I wanted to raise a family.
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Just cost? Why?
 
We have an interesting gentrification scenario playing out down the street from me. A developer bought an old mall which was failing and had just become an unused/unsightly centerpiece of the neighborhood. They closed it permanently during covid and plan to build a pretty massive development there. The neighborhood has been historically minority and working class so naturally this has caused quite a bit of tension.

Members of the community formed a working group to propose an alternative redevelopment plan which is completely infeasible and unrealistic to expect of an entirely private owner. There have also been demands for affordable housing but the city won’t change the zoning to allow for 6 stories instead of 4 (dumb) which makes it very difficult for the developer to incorporate a meaningful number of affordable units and make the financing work.

I’m somewhat conflicted because something has to be done to revitalize the property but it requires a sophisticated partner with a tremendous amount of capital available which in turn necessitates a significant monetary return. Ultimately it seems like the developer is just going to push forward under the existing zoning requirements so the city doesn’t have much influence over the matter.
 
Biden is going to ban menthol cigarettes and cigarellos. I'll give you my swisher sweets when you pry it from my cold, drunk hands
 
TownieDeac said:
it feels like we put too much impetus on personal actions for parents in either situation

for a parent who wants their kid to go to the "best schools" and uses that to drive their suburbs move, that's a big ask to be informed on school choice and uproot an urban life to live in a bland suburb for the sake of your children's future

for a parent who wants their kid to experience urban life and values a holistic education and diverse environment, to stick with the progressive ethos you've also got to be active in your local housing policy and be willing to fight for high density/subsidized/affordable housing that might devalue your own house; you've got to be willing to fight against NIMBYism and listen to local extant community priorities, etc. etc.

in both situations these feel to me to be a failure of govt to provide choice to parents that doesn't require full-on change your life and lifestyle sacrifices above and beyond normal parenting duties and civic participation.
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yes, the neoliberal state forces too much of the burden (of everything) on the individual in so many ways
 
Had a similar discussion in our house recently because we are considering joining the local country club. Outside of it just feeling a little douchey, wife is extremely concerned about kids growing up in a bubble, which I totally get and agree with. But they are going to go to public school in a super diverse district, and it's not like it would preclude other outside activities.
 
Jane Jacobs said:
At least you could walk through medieval central European villages.
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tried to find that tweet but the gist:

"boomers: why don't kids play outside anymore?

the outside they built:

I0000MrQzgOVl2Fc.jpg
 
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