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Chat Thread: Ready for the reign/rain to end

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tigerswood said:
Right, but I think Windy is saying how do you draw the line? Washington, Jefferson, and Madison all owned slaves. Should they be cancelled?
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Well, I take the approach of looking at each person individually, however each and every person is going to have a different view of whether someone should be cancelled or not, and what that entails. Washington's views on slavery changed throughout his life, the colonially army was racially integrated, and his will made it clear that he favored freeing slaves. Madison called slavery the most oppressive dominion that ever existed, yet still owned slaves for much of his life. People are complicated and there isn't ever going to be a clear line.

Renaming birds isn't that big a deal, presumably roadrunners had different names before roads existed and no one seems to be have an issue with that.
 
WindyCityDeac said:
I struggle with the renaming things because of people being slave owners and what not. The entire country was started by slave owners so what is the line on removing names? I understand and respect the sentiment but it’s never quite made total sense to me.
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I get that. There is something about sweeping our racist history under the rug that bothers me. But think about this from the perspective a black person trying to get into a new hobby that is already overwhelmingly white and then having the say "Look everyone, There's a McKowns' Longspur!" John J. McKown was a confederate general that literally fought in a war to keep your ancestor's enslaved. I think I'd go take up fishing instead.
 
tigerswood said:
Right, but I think Windy is saying how do you draw the line? Washington, Jefferson, and Madison all owned slaves. Should they be cancelled?
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What does cancelling a dead president even mean? It's not like anyone is advocating that history classes stop teaching about these people.

I think it's more than reasonable to say that we should consider the full context of these people's lives, including their slave-ownership, as opposed to just making them American heroes that are above any nuanced criticism.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Renaming birds isn't that big a deal, presumably roadrunners had different names before roads existed and no one seems to be have an issue with that.
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This is true. Birds get renamed all the time. The American Ornithological Society has a committee on bird names and every year reviews petitions to rename things and make decisions on the merits of the petitions. It's only a big deal now because there are a bunch getting renamed. Also, I'll say again, the vast majority or renamings are because the assigned names honoring people are not intuitive and useful names. The name Kirtland's warbler is just confusing and random, call it a Jack pine warbler or something that is descriptive instead. There is no evidence that Mr. Kirtland was a racist and I don't think he owned slaves. But he also never saw a Kirtland's warbler and wasn't even into birds. He just let a Smithsonian collector stay in his mansion for free for a few weeks while he was on an expedition in Michigan so the collector named one of the birds he discovered on the trip after the guy who's house he was staying in.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Well, I take the approach of looking at each person individually, however each and every person is going to have a different view of whether someone should be cancelled or not, and what that entails. Washington's views on slavery changed throughout his life, the colonially army was racially integrated, and his will made it clear that he favored freeing slaves. Madison called slavery the most oppressive dominion that ever existed, yet still owned slaves for much of his life. People are complicated and there isn't ever going to be a clear line.

Renaming birds isn't that big a deal, presumably roadrunners had different names before roads existed and no one seems to be have an issue with that.
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We've had roads as long as we've had people. People name birds.
 
Seems like the cancellation line for old dead white guys is somewhere between:

1) Did you own slaves?
2) Did you fight in the Civil War for the Confederacy?
3) Did you actively oppose integration and civil rights?

You can overcome #1 if you were famous enough/did enough other good things. Can't overcome 2 or 3.
 
I agree with that. Seems like the civil war is the dividing line of society was changing so if you weren’t on board from that date forward canceling is fair game. Pre-civil war it was just the way things were.
 
We had roads in New England before Texas. What kinda niche truck stops did you hit on the way to New Hampshire or whatever
 
BarcaDeac said:
We had roads in New England before Texas. What kinda niche truck stops did you hit on the way to New Hampshire or whatever
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common-man-roadside-entrance.jpg

We only have state run liquor stores that double as truck stops.
 
A little good news bad news Nature Center update @cookoutdeac

Mountain Lions are super cute and playful. Didn’t see the coyotes at all in their new habitat. Prob hiding out in the house that faces away from the viewing area.

Olive the otter died. Obi-Wan was playful as hell but our son kept wondering where she was and we said maybe taking a nap. Then they announced today she died.
 
BarcaDeac said:
A little good news bad news Nature Center update @cookoutdeac

Mountain Lions are super cute and playful. Didn’t see the coyotes at all in their new habitat. Prob hiding out in the house that faces away from the viewing area.

Olive the otter died. Obi-Wan was playful as hell but our son kept wondering where she was and we said maybe taking a nap. Then they announced today she died.
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Every otter dies. Not every otter really lives.
 
mako1331 said:
Every otter dies. Not every otter really lives.
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she was 20 which is p old for otters, way older than those in nature (she was found abandoned as a baby). they brought Obi-Wan from the Pittsburgh Zoo to be her mate but she friendzoned him instantly so they just chilled with one another.
 
BarcaDeac said:
she was 20 which is p old for otters, way older than those in nature (she was found abandoned as a baby). they brought Obi-Wan from the Pittsburgh Zoo to be her mate but she friendzoned him instantly so they just chilled with one another.
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Why would you expect an attractive otter to settle for slump busting with some uggo from grittsburgh?
 
Thomas English muffins packaging says I can get some exclusive, limited edition merch. Wat?
 
I'd rather use my eyes to watch this partial eclipse today than this lame ass yankee basketball game tonight.
 
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