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Collins, Brown, Paul to vote against Ryan budget plan

SCDeac said:
And what I can't wait to watch and unfold is the fiscal train wreck just around the bend. I figure about 4-5 more years of $1 - $1.5 Trillion deficits should just about do the trick.

Hello Greek and Irish style austerity measures.

Me thinks the GOP would be smart to just sit back and go along with the Dems plan of doing absolutely nothing and keeping their heads in the sand.
Maybe the tooth fairy will come along and fix everything.
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I'm starting to come around to this line of thinking. It just seems pointless to fight for any sort of fiscal responsibility when it comes to entitlement programs because the American public is inherently selefish and hasn't had to deal with the daily reality of our debt crisis.

And since I believe that we are going to have raise taxes as well as slash spending, I'd be fine with the Dems jacking up taxes over the next couple years and then losing power when they're unable to provide the quick fix by simply taxing the rich.

Then the Pubs take back over, leave a somewhat higher tax rate (relative to today) in place, and then they slash the hell out of entitlement programs.

I know it's a long winded theory but it could just work.
 
Not wanting it to happen, but a government shutdown might be the best thing to happen right now. It would have the effect of everyone having to actually consider how important to them individually are the various benefits we've all been directly or indirectly receiving. The answer about what happened in the old days is that in the old days your elderly Mom and Dad lived with you and you supported them, just as they supported you when you were young. That was the norm then; it still occurs sometimes but it is the exception now.
 
RINOs don't want to cut entitlements or increase taxes. If you're going to push the US off a cliff, at least pick a cliff.
 
meandmyuncleDeac said:
So you agree that RINO's are gutless for not considering tax increases?
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Oh absolutely, but they also weren't elected to raise taxes so I guess I understand. Its the same way with the Democrats who wouldn't dare touch any of their bloated entitlement prograams because their base counts on those handouts.

Both sides are pandering to their bases and until they're forced to deal with the reality of our debt crisis we're going to keep spiraling into oblivion.
 
The average American life span in the 1920's was 53.6 years for men & 54.6 years for women.
 
The entitlement programs are fine. The problem that they have is that healthcare has inflated to a RIDICULOUS cost. A percentage increase that nobody could have foretold when those programs were created. Instead of putting people out on their ass we need to figure out a way to get healthcare costs under control.

That + reduced revenue because of a shitty economy = the current mess we're in
 
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maybe putting some actual decisions in peoples hands will help. give joe plumber a personal incentive to make intelligent health care decisions - i.e. either a stake in the costs or a stake in the savings - and see where that lands us.

I would be okay with some tax hikes if I thought that we'd be meeting in the middle. Meaningful cuts to the entitlements and tax hikes could be combined.
 
DeacDiggler said:
maybe putting some actual decisions in peoples hands will help. give joe plumber a personal incentive to make intelligent health care decisions - i.e. either a stake in the costs or a stake in the savings - and see where that lands us.

I would be okay with some tax hikes if I thought that we'd be meeting in the middle. Meaningful cuts to the entitlements and tax hikes could be combined.
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Which one happens first? Sure we can "compromise" and spend and lower taxes at the same time, but no way in hell meaning cuts and tax hikes happen at the same time.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
The entitlement programs are fine. The problem that they have is that healthcare has inflated to a RIDICULOUS cost. A percentage increase that nobody could have foretold when those programs were created. Instead of putting people out on their ass we need to figure out a way to get healthcare costs under control.

That + reduced revenue because of a shitty economy = the current mess we're in
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Are you fucking serious? Have you ever spent a day dealing with the bullshit that is the welfare society of this country?

That fact that you basically brushed off the bloated costs involved with entitlement programs just makes me sad. Does the Left just completely ignore what's happening to all the welfare states in Western Europe? I don't fucking get it.

Raises taxes, slash entitlements and we're saved. Unless that compromise occurs we might as well start making Mandarin a mandatory class for all students because they'll be our overlords in less than 100 years.
 
The welfare states in Western Europe didn't have a problem until healthcare costs started rocketing out of control and they couldn't collect as much revenue because of the worldwide economic problems.

There are bloated costs, of course. You're going to have that when you have a country as big as ours. I just don't think the bloat is that big of a problem compared with the cost of healthcare
 
BeachBumDeac said:
The entitlement programs are fine. The problem that they have is that healthcare has inflated to a RIDICULOUS cost. A percentage increase that nobody could have foretold when those programs were created. Instead of putting people out on their ass we need to figure out a way to get healthcare costs under control.

That + reduced revenue because of a shitty economy = the current mess we're in
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I agree with this. Unfortunately, it's going to be very difficult to get healthcare costs under control until 1) Americans stop over-utilizing, 2) America has a cultural shift in attitude on palliative/hospice care and 3)Americans learn how to eat properly.
 
WakeandBake said:
I agree with this. Unfortunately, it's going to be very difficult to get healthcare costs under control until 1) Americans stop over-utilizing, 2) America has a cultural shift in attitude on palliative/hospice care and 3)Americans learn how to eat properly.
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W&B...I don't agre with you much, but you are 100% correct here.

I'd also add a 4th point...somehow we need more market forces in healthcare. What I mean is almost no one shops around. Say I go get a physical I just give them my insurance card and don't really know are care about the cost. The doc down the street could be cheaper, but there's not much incentive to compete for business among providers. I can't think of any other good or service that I purchase where I don't know or care about the cost.

Really good points you make though.
 
meandmyuncleDeac said:
Republicans will be running away in droves from the Ryan "death squad budget" in the Senate. They will soon discover that the two things Republicans hate the most, social security and medicare, are two things average Americans love the most. I can't wait to watch it unfold!!
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NYT piece
 
SCDeac said:
W&B...I don't agre with you much, but you are 100% correct here.

I'd also add a 4th point...somehow we need more market forces in healthcare. What I mean is almost no one shops around. Say I go get a physical I just give them my insurance card and don't really know are care about the cost. The doc down the street could be cheaper, but there's not much incentive to compete for business among providers. I can't think of any other good or service that I purchase where I don't know or care about the cost.

Really good points you make though.
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There is the question about the extent to which market force would actually reduce cost, but this is a good start.
 
Get rid of the Bush tax cuts and cap Medicare growth. Boom. Problem solved.
 
Really good posts by Bake and SC.

Over utilization drives me nuts. So does spending hundreds of thousands on 95 year olds. Wake's point 1 and 2.
 
61raddeac said:
Really good posts by Bake and SC.

Over utilization drives me nuts. So does spending hundreds of thousands on 95 year olds. Wake's point 1 and 2.
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That's a much larger question that our government and private health care industries or any of us are not equipped to answer. My father-in-law was in the ICU for 12 days before being released, his second long hospital stay since experiencing heart failure 2 1/2 years ago. I have no idea what the bill for his surgeries, second pacemaker, and medication that literally keeps him from dying on a daily basis. I do know that he's a staunch Republican and would probably believe that keeping him alive for who knows how long is a good use of taxpayer money and as a taxpayer, he's just personally getting back what he's paid in, NOT getting an "entitlement".
 
PhDeac said:
That's a much larger question that our government and private health care industries or any of us are not equipped to answer. My father-in-law was in the ICU for 12 days before being released, his second long hospital stay since experiencing heart failure 2 1/2 years ago. I have no idea what the bill for his surgeries, second pacemaker, and medication that literally keeps him from dying on a daily basis. I do know that he's a staunch Republican and would probably believe that keeping him alive for who knows how long is a good use of taxpayer money and as a taxpayer, he's just personally getting back what he's paid in, NOT getting an "entitlement".
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How much do you think he actually paid in...aside from the fact that Medicare is run as a pay-as-you-go program?

I'll bet the entire amount I've paid into Medicare over the past 20 years wouldn't cover 2 days in the ICU.

RJ's right....How do you cap Medicare with a rapidly aging population with the baby boomer demographic bomb looming?
 
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