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Collins, Brown, Paul to vote against Ryan budget plan

The "experts" I've read on the medicare issue seem to agree that cost control has to be a component of any effort to keep medicare viable. I get confused when they try to explain how to do that.

As an aside, I think I've made it quite clear that I'm a democrat through and through. That being said, why not consider raising the retirement age for social security? I mean people are just plain living longer than they did just a generation ago. Could raising the age save money, or make it solvent? Just asking, because I really don't know?
 
Social Security is the easiest thing to fix. Raise the retirement age by 1-2 mothns per year until it reaches 72-74 by the middle of this century. Then you eliminate contribution caps for those who earn over $250K/year.

Lastly you do what Al Gore got skewered for but was very smart to talk about- the lockbox. All monies pad into Social Security stay in Social Security's accounts and cannot be used for any other purposes.
 
I don't know what incentive there is for providers to discourage over-utilization. Doctors get paid for doing stuff, not for promoting health or telling people to "walk it off" or "ignore the rash" or whatever.

Private insurance companies have all the incentive in the world to promote good health and under-utilization, so why have American's not done this? I don't know I'm no expert.

Something like 60% of a group's health costs are for 10% of the members of that group, IIRC.

Americans hold all the cards. I read somewhere that Americans used to spend 3 times as much of their household income on food than health care - and now that trend has reversed. Cheap bullshit food is fucking people up - and they end up paying for it on the back end in health care costs. I could be wrong, but I think the real cost of dialysis is about 40k per month - so a couple of lard-asses who can't put the bon bons down in your group plan are driving up your costs.
 
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RJ, have you seen studies to indicate that would work?

Most people my age, 57, who I talk to don't want to quit working as long as we can be effective. You can start tapping ss at age 62, which seems rather absurd to me unless you're disabled.
 
If you tap SS at 62 these days, you get about 1/3- 40% less. By 2050 or 2060, the "early age" could be 70-72.

There should also be means testing. The system was never set up to protect the wealthy. Set up a mamimum amount of holdings and inclome that anyone can have and participate.

There is one downside of upping the age. It keeps a lot of people in the workforce which makes it harder to enter to the workforce for younger people.

Sounds like we were at Wake partially at the same time.
 
We were. Class of '75 here. Didn't you live in Efird for a while? It used to get smoky over there! Loved it.
 
raising the age seems like a good idea on it's face - but it could push younger workers out like RJ said or, more likely, create a glut of workers in their 60s who aren't getting hired. then what?
 
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I don't know what incentive there is for providers to discourage over-utilization. Doctors get paid for doing stuff, not for promoting health or telling people to "walk it off" or "ignore the rash" or whatever.

Private insurance companies have all the incentive in the world to promote good health and under-utilization, so why have American's not done this? I don't know I'm no expert.

Something like 60% of a group's health costs are for 10% of the members of that group, IIRC.

Americans hold all the cards. I read somewhere that Americans used to spend 3 times as much of their household income on food than health care - and now that trend has reversed. Cheap bullshit food is fucking people up - and they end up paying for it on the back end in health care costs. I could be wrong, but I think the real cost of dialysis is about 40k per month - so a couple of lard-asses who can't put the bon bons down in your group plan are driving up your costs.

Insurance companies have tried to do this in the past in the form of HMO's. Care was restricted, went through a "gatekeeper" and was only covered if it was determined to be "necessary." This was widely rejected by the American public, so now most plans allow people to receive any care they want, whenever they want. And as a way to keep up with the Jones', they have to make sure they're covering all of the state of the art (read costly) procedures.

Ultimately, insurers and employers have done about as much as they can on the plan design side. There's only so much more in costs they can shift to participants. Studies have shown that 40% of costs are related to behavior, and companies are trying to impact that as well through wellness and disease management programs, but there is resistence there as well. We'll ultimately make some progress here, and it's already started to happen, but it will take time.

Medicare is an entirely different animal though. These are people that have made it to age 65, and the fact is, people are going to get sick at those ages. Cancer, heart disease, etc. We can live healthy lives, but it's difficult to avoid this in the long run. End of life care is a huge cost to the system, and Medicare is not going to avoid this cost. It's difficult for me to imagine a scenario where these costs are contained without some form of rationing, especially with the boomer generation reaching eligibility and a smaller population paying for it. Whether it's through some voucher program, where it's probably the poorer members who will be the ones left behind, or through some board approving certain services based on a cost benefit analysis of the case. Even in the latter scenario, though, the rich will be sure to get the care they need. Not really a political winner for either party, but ultimately something will need to be done to control these costs.

As an aside, you're right that a small percentage of claimants are generating a high percentage of the costs. Generally, the 80/20 (20% of claimants generating 80% of costs) rule still applies, but it's getting even more skewed at the high end, where it's probably about 40/5.
 
Crush the Republican-preferred military-industrial complex. Crush corporate welfare. Collect a fair share of taxes from the rich. After write-offs they don't pay ANYTHING today.

Those things taken care of, SS and Medicare will be just fine.

Basically, Republicans and Libertarians all suck and should be deported to Somalia or some other haven of true freedom.
 
raising the age seems like a good idea on it's face - but it could push younger workers out like RJ said or, more likely, create a glut of workers in their 60s who aren't getting hired. then what?

When SS was implemented, the average lifespan was something like 62. Now it's up to around 78 - I'm guessing the latter number, but you get the point.

People basically worked until they died, and we provided some protection for those who outlived their working lifetime. Now we have the expectation of retiring, but with people living so long, we need to push that age level back. If it's done with some advance notice, we'll allow people to plan for this, save some money if they want to retire early, and continue to protect against people who have outlived their working lifetime (whatever that age may be).
 
How much do you think he actually paid in...aside from the fact that Medicare is run as a pay-as-you-go program?

I'll bet the entire amount I've paid into Medicare over the past 20 years wouldn't cover 2 days in the ICU.

RJ's right....How do you cap Medicare with a rapidly aging population with the baby boomer demographic bomb looming?

Oh no doubt. That's probably true for all but the top 1%. My point is that no matter the political background, the elderly don't think of Medicare as an entitlement. On the flipside, I don't think there is anybody who believes someone who is dying shouldn't receive care because they're old. As with many things, our wishes don't match the reality. So what has to give?

Do we just sacrifice our elderly to save the cash?
Do we artificially make the health care industry less profitable with the risk of pushing out doctors and cutting jobs for highly skilled workers who provide a crucial service?
Do we make sure market forces take hold and tell a 70 year old, "We're pretty sure we can keep you alive for a few more years, but it's going to cost several hundred thousand dollars?
Do we essentially raise taxes to pay for comprehensive care for the elderly?

There are plenty more questions and no good answers. Until we realize this and stop talking in terms of just capping medicare or ignoring the problems, we're not going to get anywhere.
 
Oh no doubt. That's probably true for all but the top 1%. My point is that no matter the political background, the elderly don't think of Medicare as an entitlement. On the flipside, I don't think there is anybody who believes someone who is dying shouldn't receive care because they're old. As with many things, our wishes don't match the reality. So what has to give?

Do we just sacrifice our elderly to save the cash?
Do we artificially make the health care industry less profitable with the risk of pushing out doctors and cutting jobs for highly skilled workers who provide a crucial service?
Do we make sure market forces take hold and tell a 70 year old, "We're pretty sure we can keep you alive for a few more years, but it's going to cost several hundred thousand dollars?
Do we essentially raise taxes to pay for comprehensive care for the elderly?

There are plenty more questions and no good answers. Until we realize this and stop talking in terms of just capping medicare or ignoring the problems, we're not going to get anywhere.

Definitely no good answers.
 
FIVE voted against it : Snowe, Collins, Brown, Paul and Murkowski

Here's a very simple ad in every GOP House race:

The GOP Budget would have every American under 55 paying $6000 MORE per year for their healthcare.

AND gviing Millioaires a $100,000/year tax cut.

Do you beleive in having the elderly pay more to give millioaires a ONE HUNFRED THOUSAND DOLLAR per year tax cut.
 
FIVE voted against it : Snowe, Collins, Brown, Paul and Murkowski

Here's a very simple ad in every GOP House race:

The GOP Budget would have every American under 55 paying $6000 MORE per year for their healthcare.

AND gviing Millioaires a $100,000/year tax cut.

Do you beleive in having the elderly pay more to give millioaires a ONE HUNFRED THOUSAND DOLLAR per year tax cut.

Wow! That's original...can't believe the Dems have never played that card before.
 
The truth is the best defense and creates the most effective ads.
 
That pap's no more truthful than the "Death Panel" junk from'10.

Each statement I made is true. Death panels weren't.

According the CBO it will cost seniors an average of $6000 more per year for their insurance.

Plus the tax cut in the Ryan Budget WILL give people making over $1M/year a $100,000 tax cut over what they are paying now.

I know the truth hurts but the truth is the truth.
 
Actually the reduction of the top rate proposed by Ryan is close to revenue neutral since it also does away with many loopholes. A lower tax rate with a broader base can collect the same level of revenue as higher rates with loads of exemptions. For example here in SC we have a 6% sales tax with around 300 exemptions. Scrap the exemptions and you could collect the same revenue with a3%-3.5% sales tax.
 
Actually the reduction of the top rate proposed by Ryan is close to revenue neutral since it also does away with many loopholes. A lower tax rate with a broader base can collect the same level of revenue as higher rates with loads of exemptions. For example here in SC we have a 6% sales tax with around 300 exemptions. Scrap the exemptions and you could collect the same revenue with a3%-3.5% sales tax.

which loopholes are done away with?
 
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