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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

no matter the cost of a contract as it is small compared to the value of the brand and reputation for its product on the field and court and the amount of money schools make for successful programs.
My kids are filling out brackets with their friends, and one for their grade, and one for the whole school, and one for the contest our group of families do together, and one for the neighborhood contest... I mean for goodness sakes our orthodontist office keeps emailing to join their bracket contest. It's obviously easy with the ability to duplicate online entries.

Multiply that at least to some degree times millions of families around the country, and it's insane how much marketing Wake misses out on by not getting its name in front of all these people at this time of year.
 
To me, who is not an expert in such matters, the only realistic strategy I can think of (i.e., doesn’t require Wake to win a national title in football or basketball ASAP, transform into a much, much larger institution, or relocate to a major media market - none of which seem likely to help Duke, Pitt, Virginia Tech, or Georgia Tech) is to lean hard into the state politics and try to tie our fate to UNC, NCSU, and Duke.

UNC and NCSU are almost certainly now tied together. Not sure if the NC General Assembly really cares to protect Wake and Duke, but lobbying hard to ensure that Wake isn’t left out (call it good for the Winston-Salem economy, the sports culture of the state, whatever) seems to me like our best shot. I wouldn’t necessarily expect Wente or Currie to put that in a press release.
 
Genuinely curious (a) what strategies you all think exist to keep Wake from getting left out of a 2-super-league NCAA and (b) what strategies you’d expect the Wake President to publicly reveal.

I'll take a stab, in reverse order. Reveal nothing, but avoid making the sort of idiotic statements Wellman would make. I think they're doing that. I thought Currie's statement was fine, even good actually. He's walking the fence.

I would do this, generally speaking:

1. Figure out as soon as I could what's going to happen. Currie knows WAY more than we do about this.

2. If there are enough schools committed to the ACC to make it survive, negotiate as big an exit fee as possible from those who will leave, and add the best available schools. Likely starting with Oregon State and Washington State.

3. If not, seek out proactively the best landing spot possible for WFU. If our basketball program was worth a crap (it's not, no matter how hard we try to convince ourselves that it is), I'd focus on the Big 12. I'd treat it like college applications. Here's my safety conference, here's my reach conferences, etc. I'd want to have some agency in where we end up, as opposed to just watching it all fall apart and either hoping for the best or trying to convince people that we're just fine no matter what and are better than everyone else (another Wellman approach).

Theme: even if my choices are not ideal, I'd identify them, and make one. I would not leave my future conference affiliation up to chance.

The problem (which is not a WFU-only issue) is that people sometimes have decision-paralysis, because they are afraid of making a bad decision and having to own it. So they cling to the failing status quo. That's generally a bad strategy when it involves the allocation of money.

Chance favors those in motion. I hope- and generally believe- Currie is moving as hard as he can. Time will tell.
 
Say what you will about the Joel (my personal belief is that the venue is not the problem with WFU basketball), but it's hard to argue with this statement. I'm just not sure why a parent would pay a gazillion dollars to send their kid to Wake, given our decline in academic ranking and athletics. Hopefully there's a strategy in play that is not apparent to me.

But from afar it looks like a scary time for WFU. The thing I hold onto is that Currie seems like a smart dude, who probably has a plan of some sort. But being really (and demonstrably; not just because we say so) good in academics and sports right now would give him more tools to work with.
Wake has never been a "top 20" university so nothing has changed there. And parents pay a gazillion dollars for their kids to go to lots of school that are ranked lower than us and that do not have big time athletics...
As others have pointed out, nothing about the Wake Forest education has changed - just the criteria used in the ranking systems. As a school our weakness appears to be optimizing for the various ranking systems that impact us - in academics as well as athletics....
 
Wake has never been a "top 20" university so nothing has changed there. And parents pay a gazillion dollars for their kids to go to lots of school that are ranked lower than us and that do not have big time athletics...
As others have pointed out, nothing about the Wake Forest education has changed - just the criteria used in the ranking systems. As a school our weakness appears to be optimizing for the various ranking systems that impact us - in academics as well as athletics....

So it's all good then? Good to know.

We just need to make sure everyone who isn't a WFU fan realizes how dumb and non-representative the academic and athletic rankings are.
 
I'll take a stab, in reverse order. Reveal nothing, but avoid making the sort of idiotic statements Wellman would make. I think they're doing that. I thought Currie's statement was fine, even good actually. He's walking the fence.

I would do this, generally speaking:

1. Figure out as soon as I could what's going to happen. Currie knows WAY more than we do about this.

2. If there are enough schools committed to the ACC to make it survive, negotiate as big an exit fee as possible from those who will leave, and add the best available schools. Likely starting with Oregon State and Washington State.

3. If not, seek out proactively the best landing spot possible for WFU. If our basketball program was worth a crap (it's not, no matter how hard we try to convince ourselves that it is), I'd focus on the Big 12. I'd treat it like college applications. Here's my safety conference, here's my reach conferences, etc. I'd want to have some agency in where we end up, as opposed to just watching it all fall apart and either hoping for the best or trying to convince people that we're just fine no matter what and are better than everyone else (another Wellman approach).

Theme: even if my choices are not ideal, I'd identify them, and make one. I would not leave my future conference affiliation up to chance.

The problem (which is not a WFU-only issue) is that people sometimes have decision-paralysis, because they are afraid of making a bad decision and having to own it. So they cling to the failing status quo. That's generally a bad strategy when it involves the allocation of money.

Chance favors those in motion. I hope- and generally believe- Currie is moving as hard as he can. Time will tell.
Agree. The problem is the linkage between 2 and 3. This is about survival. So, while I'm sure the ADs and Presidents of BC, Duke, GT, Pitt, Cuse, L'ville, Cal Stanford, SMU and WF are providing all sorts of assurances to each other about keeping the ACC together, they are also keeping their options open by talking to the Big 12 or Big East in case everything goes sideways.
 
Well, as long as Currie and Wente "remain proudly focused on enhancing Wake Forest’s position amongst the highest level of intercollegiate athletics competition in the country, " I'm not worried. Also, love the fastest growing fanbase line again. Wonder if he applied for a trademark.
About as good as Clawson's several years back "Good to Great"
 
That’s ultimately why I think the political angle is our best shot - every school has to be in it for themselves. UNC isn’t going to stay wedded to NCSU, Wake and Duke for the benefit of those schools. It’s a race to the bottom so to speak.

You almost have to step back and view it more holistically - it’s better for the state of North Carolina if these 4 schools continue to compete in the same conference. Relying on NC politicians to save us (which realistically to me is not that we wind up in the Big 10 or SEC, but that we are in a conference with those 3 schools) is a weird fucking thing given that crowd, but I do think there’s a general public desire in NC not to blow up 100+ years of tradition.
 
All the other NC D-1 schools are split into a bunch of different conferences. Politicians should be focused on making sure they all play each other too.
 
We are 9 months removed from the College World Series and 3 years removed from the ACC Championship Game and we've had prominent alumni making $5MM+ gifts to basketball but we're no longer a place with big time college athletics? Interesting.

Unlike just about every other Power 5 (or 6, or 4) Program, Wake Forest is neither a giant private research institution nor a large state university with a huge built-in fanbase. We have great academics focused on actually teaching the students. We punch above our weight in athletics. I liked that profile and I'm proud to have a degree from Wake Forest. I don't need it to be more like Duke or more like UNC.
This. Some of y’all are really into theatrics lol
 
Interesting. So there are people who thought Wake was firmly part of the new world order of college sports three years ago and don't think anything has changed since.
 
So it's all good then? Good to know.

We just need to make sure everyone who isn't a WFU fan realizes how dumb and non-representative the academic and athletic rankings are.
No, I'm not trying to say everything is OK... But I don't foresee a major dropoff in demand for the educational opportunities offered by Wake Forest - I could be dead wrong though.
Things are more dicey on the athletics side of things, for sure.
 
Interesting. So there are people who thought Wake was firmly part of the new world order of college sports three years ago and don't think anything has changed since.
Do you really think that WF would be in a different position with realignment if WF had made the NCAA Tournament this year and the football team had played in the Military Bowl or Sun Bowl? Clemson and FSU wouldn't have filed suit? Other conferences would be sending out invites for WF to join?
 
Do you really think that WF would be in a different position with realignment if WF had made the NCAA Tournament this year and the football team had played in the Military Bowl or Sun Bowl? Clemson and FSU wouldn't have filed suit? Other conferences would be sending out invites for WF to join?
No. But I do actually believe that had we prioritized basketball and won on the same level as Odom and even Prosser over the last 20 years that we would be way more attractive to other suitors. Wherever Duke ends up, that’s where we would have ended up. If we end up in the same conference as Duke, then you are right, nothing would have been different.
 
Didn't Richard Burr do undergrad at Wake? If I'm in wake administration I'm leaning with everything I got on alumni NC politicians. That's your only play at this point.
 
Do you really think that WF would be in a different position with realignment if WF had made the NCAA Tournament this year and the football team had played in the Military Bowl or Sun Bowl? Clemson and FSU wouldn't have filed suit? Other conferences would be sending out invites for WF to join?

I think we would have more options if our bowl streak was intact (optics matter; sorry Windy) and our basketball program had not fallen off the edge of the world. Would we get in the B10? Likely not. But would we be better off? Yep.

This is a problem that started before this year, so I don't think it's just a matter of not making the tournament or a bowl this particular year.

We are going the wrong way, at the wrong time.
 
I think Wake's position has gotten worse by virtue of falling in the US News & World Report rankings (due to the rankings not favoring small classes anymore), football falling off from being a CFP contender and exciting offensive team, and men's basketball failing to climb out of the depth of the lost decade.

I think we would have more options if our bowl streak was intact (optics matter; sorry Windy) and our basketball program had not fallen off the edge of the world. Would we get in the B10? Likely not. But would we be better off? Yep.

This is a problem that started before this year, so I don't think it's just a matter of not making the tournament or a bowl this particular year.

We are going the wrong way, at the wrong time.
Exactly.
 
Didn't Richard Burr do undergrad at Wake? If I'm in wake administration I'm leaning with everything I got on alumni NC politicians. That's your only play at this point.

He's retired. You might as well ask Jesse Helms and Kay Hagan for help.
 
I know dr is just doing his usual schtick but I cannot emphasize how little basketball matters when it comes to how we will end up. We could've made 10 tournaments for the last decade and won a couple national championships and it still wouldn't have shit all to do with where we end up on the realignment merry go round
 
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