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Coronavirus !!! Very Political Thread !!!

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Did a few minutes of research (very official I know) and can’t find anyway Donald will be allowed to quarantine states unless he implements martial law. On the other hand i think he will do whatever he wants to and will worry about legal challenges later.
 
Did a few minutes of research (very official I know) and can’t find anyway Donald will be allowed to quarantine states unless he implements martial law. On the other hand i think he will do whatever he wants to and will worry about legal challenges later.

To date the only people who have shown any willingness to keep him in check are lower federal courts and House Democrats. And in both cases they have limitations - lower courts can (and have) been overruled by higher courts, including the Supreme Court. And House Democrats can (and have been) blocked by Senate Republicans, the most notable case being the impeachment proceedings. So yeah, he pretty much has leeway to do whatever, as there's apparently no longer anyone in the WH who will stand up to him.
 
All true, and yet his approval rating is the highest its been since he took office. I understand the "rally around the flag" mentality in times of national crisis, but given Trump's obvious failures of leadership in this crisis it's still very depressing to see. <sigh>

People worrying about his approval rating are unsmart.
 
Yeah. They could block off alligator alley and cut off much of the travel between Miami and the SW coast.
But again, if the states and federal were going to do this and exercise this massive power, it’s too late.

I have no idea what your expectations are at this point. Too late for what? To save lives and spare the healthcare system in various locations complete carnage? Absolutely incorrect. Too late to stop the spread of the pandemic to every corner of the world? Correct. That ship left the station a long time ago.
 
People worrying about his approval rating are unsmart.

Maybe, but it's depressing to watch nonetheless. Maybe it will change over time. I certainly hope so.

I'm worrying about living. Not worrying about his approval rating. I suspect his approval rating will go down a little bit once we have more deaths than WW2
 
People worrying about his approval rating are unsmart.

plenty of smart people on here are obsessed with uncritical analyses of polling, but i do agree with you generally that approval ratings don't really mean anything
 
I'm worrying about living. Not worrying about his approval rating. I suspect his approval rating will go down a little bit once we have more deaths than WW2

The world is literally imploding over this and people are worried about Trump's approval rating. We are no where close to the middle of this crisis. And it is a truly global crisis. None of us has a clue as to what the world will look like in 7+ months.
 
Riots in Wuhan now as the government is letting people in but not allowing them to leave.

Southern Italy falling into food shortages and looting has begun.

That’s the thing. If life is like this in mid April, I’d consider a huge win. We’re not going back to business as usual until mid summer at the earliest.
 
Man there are a lot of Trumpers on the sports board who will defend trump amidst this shit storm aren’t there?
 
I'm worrying about living. Not worrying about his approval rating. I suspect his approval rating will go down a little bit once we have more deaths than WW2

I get that, and I'm also concerned about family and friends and the state of the world and nation during and after this disaster, but that doesn't mean that watching Trump's handling of this crisis and related issues isn't depressing as hell to watch. At any rate I will cease to discuss it, so carry on.
 
I have no idea what your expectations are at this point. Too late for what? To save lives and spare the healthcare system in various locations complete carnage? Absolutely incorrect. Too late to stop the spread of the pandemic to every corner of the world? Correct. That ship left the station a long time ago.

Definitely the latter. The first is questionable. You’re assuming there are still people in NY and other hotspots who want to leave and haven’t yet. I’m not sure who these restrictions would stop. The other problem is that such a policy assumes we know what all the hotspots are. Today it’s NY, NJ, CT. By Monday, they’ll need to add LA. Maybe IL and CA join a few days later. Instead of daily quarantines, just shut down travel all together if the federal government is going to do it.
 
I have no idea what your expectations are at this point. Too late for what? To save lives and spare the healthcare system in various locations complete carnage? Absolutely incorrect. Too late to stop the spread of the pandemic to every corner of the world? Correct. That ship left the station a long time ago.

I hear you and don't really disagree, but I am fairly confident that it is illegal for states in the US to restrict access to US citizens.
 
Anyone in NY who wants to leave but hasn't yet probably took off after seeing Trump's tweet this morning threatening to quarantine the whole state.
 
Anyone in NY who wants to leave but hasn't yet probably took off after seeing Trump's tweet this morning threatening to quarantine the whole state.

What a fucking idiot. He’s literally making the situation worse. How many will die because of this recklessness?
 
Definitely the latter. The first is questionable. You’re assuming there are still people in NY and other hotspots who want to leave and haven’t yet. I’m not sure who these restrictions would stop. The other problem is that such a policy assumes we know what all the hotspots are. Today it’s NY, NJ, CT. By Monday, they’ll need to add LA. Maybe IL and CA join a few days later. Instead of daily quarantines, just shut down travel all together if the federal government is going to do it.

There are plenty of people who want to leave and can't, never mind haven't. The fact we don't know where the "hot spots" are is not relevant, however. We know more will develop. And we know nothing positive arrives by having people travel from one place to another. So I'm with you on shutting down personal travel. It's what governments are doing internationally. And you are seeing many do it domestically. Colombia has eliminated all domestic air travel. Finland is shutting Helsinki in. Etc.
 
Can anyone translate this?

Repost from another group. Interesting read.

"I am an ER MD in New Orleans. Class of 98. Every one of my colleagues have now seen several hundred Covid 19 patients and this is what I think I know.

Clinical course is predictable.
2-11 days after exposure (day 5 on average) flu like symptoms start. Common are fever, headache, dry cough, myalgias(back pain), nausea without vomiting, abdominal discomfort with some diarrhea, loss of smell, anorexia, fatigue.

Day 5 of symptoms- increased SOB, and bilateral viral pneumonia from direct viral damage to lung parenchyma.

Day 10- Cytokine storm leading to acute ARDS and multiorgan failure. You can literally watch it happen in a matter of hours.

81% mild symptoms, 14% severe symptoms requiring hospitalization, 5% critical.

Patient presentation is varied. Patients are coming in hypoxic (even 75%) without dyspnea. I have seen Covid patients present with encephalopathy, renal failure from dehydration, DKA. I have seen the bilateral interstitial pneumonia on the xray of the asymptomatic shoulder dislocation or on the CT's of the (respiratory) asymptomatic polytrauma patient. Essentially if they are in my ER, they have it. Seen three positive flu swabs in 2 weeks and all three had Covid 19 as well. Somehow this ***** has told all other disease processes to get out of town.

China reported 15% cardiac involvement. I have seen covid 19 patients present with myocarditis, pericarditis, new onset CHF and new onset atrial fibrillation. I still order a troponin, but no cardiologist will treat no matter what the number in a suspected Covid 19 patient. Even our non covid 19 STEMIs at all of our facilities are getting TPA in the ED and rescue PCI at 60 minutes only if TPA fails.

Diagnostic
CXR- bilateral interstitial pneumonia (anecdotally starts most often in the RLL so bilateral on CXR is not required). The hypoxia does not correlate with the CXR findings. Their lungs do not sound bad. Keep your stethoscope in your pocket and evaluate with your eyes and pulse ox.

Labs- WBC low, Lymphocytes low, platelets lower then their normal, Procalcitonin normal in 95%
CRP and Ferritin elevated most often. CPK, D-Dimer, LDH, Alk Phos/AST/ALT commonly elevated.
Notice D-Dimer- I would be very careful about CT PE these patients for their hypoxia. The patients receiving IV contrast are going into renal failure and on the vent sooner.

Basically, if you have a bilateral pneumonia with normal to low WBC, lymphopenia, normal procalcitonin, elevated CRP and ferritin- you have covid-19 and do not need a nasal swab to tell you that.

A ratio of absolute neutrophil count to absolute lymphocyte count greater than 3.5 may be the highest predictor of poor outcome. the UK is automatically intubating these patients for expected outcomes regardless of their clinical presentation.

An elevated Interleukin-6 (IL6) is an indicator of their cytokine storm. If this is elevated watch these patients closely with both eyes.

Other factors that appear to be predictive of poor outcomes are thrombocytopenia and LFTs 5x upper limit of normal.

Disposition
I had never discharged multifocal pneumonia before. Now I personally do it 12-15 times a shift. 2 weeks ago we were admitting anyone who needed supplemental oxygen. Now we are discharging with oxygen if the patient is comfortable and oxygenating above 92% on nasal cannula. We have contracted with a company that sends a paramedic to their home twice daily to check on them and record a pulse ox. We know many of these patients will bounce back but if it saves a bed for a day we have accomplished something. Obviously we are fearful some won't make it back.

We are a small community hospital. Our 22 bed ICU and now a 4 bed Endoscopy suite are all Covid 19. All of these patients are intubated except one. 75% of our floor beds have been cohorted into covid 19 wards and are full. We are averaging 4 rescue intubations a day on the floor. We now have 9 vented patients in our ER transferred down from the floor after intubation.

Luckily we are part of a larger hospital group. Our main teaching hospital repurposed space to open 50 new Covid 19 ICU beds this past Sunday so these numbers are with significant decompression. Today those 50 beds are full. They are opening 30 more by Friday. But even with the "lockdown", our AI models are expecting a 200-400% increase in covid 19 patients by 4/4/2020.

Treatment
Supportive

worldwide 86% of covid 19 patients that go on a vent die. Seattle reporting 70%. Our hospital has had 5 deaths and one patient who was extubated. Extubation happens on day 10 per the Chinese and day 11 per Seattle.

Plaquenil which has weak ACE2 blockade doesn't appear to be a savior of any kind in our patient population. Theoretically, it may have some prophylactic properties but so far it is difficult to see the benefit to our hospitalized patients, but we are using it and the studies will tell. With Plaquenil's potential QT prolongation and liver toxic effects (both particularly problematic in covid 19 patients), I am not longer selectively prescribing this medication as I stated on a previous post.

We are also using Azithromycin, but are intermittently running out of IV.

Do not give these patient's standard sepsis fluid resuscitation. Be very judicious with the fluids as it hastens their respiratory decompensation. Outside the DKA and renal failure dehydration, leave them dry.

Proning vented patients significantly helps oxygenation. Even self proning the ones on nasal cannula helps.

Vent settings- Usual ARDS stuff, low volume, permissive hypercapnia, etc. Except for Peep of 5 will not do. Start at 14 and you may go up to 25 if needed.

Do not use Bipap- it does not work well and is a significant exposure risk with high levels of aerosolized virus to you and your staff. Even after a cough or sneeze this virus can aerosolize up to 3 hours.

The same goes for nebulizer treatments. Use MDI. you can give 8-10 puffs at one time of an albuterol MDI. Use only if wheezing which isn't often with covid 19. If you have to give a nebulizer must be in a negative pressure room; and if you can, instruct the patient on how to start it after you leave the room.

Do not use steroids, it makes this worse. Push out to your urgent cares to stop their usual practice of steroid shots for their URI/bronchitis.

We are currently out of Versed, Fentanyl, and intermittently Propofol. Get the dosing of Precedex and Nimbex back in your heads.

One of my colleagues who is a 31 yo old female who graduated residency last may with no health problems and normal BMI is out with the symptoms and an SaO2 of 92%. She will be the first of many.
I PPE best I have. I do wear a MaxAir PAPR the entire shift. I do not take it off to eat or drink during the shift. I undress in the garage and go straight to the shower. My wife and kids fled to her parents outside Hattiesburg. The stress and exposure at work coupled with the isolation at home is trying. But everyone is going through something right now. Everyone is scared; patients and employees. But we are the leaders of that emergency room. Be nice to your nurses and staff. Show by example how to tackle this crisis head on. Good luck to us all."
 
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