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COVID Thread 2: Operation Ludicrous Speed ! (Super Political!!!)

I really don't give a fuck anymore. If you want to get a vaccine you can walk into a CVS and get one. Shit you can pick between the three which one you would prefer. If your not vaccinated now that's a personal choice.

I will wear a mask if I am required to and not bitch about it, but if it is not required I am going to be on team science and trust in the vaccine.
 
DCDeac said:
Yeah, part of the problem will be arguments such as "it's like the flu" that reasonable people have been battling for a year are about to become accurate. Plus people generally can't get their heads around statistics at scale.

Sure, breakthrough cases are happening and people are even dying of Covid after being vaccinated. But last I checked it was around 100 people out of the almost 100 million vaccinated. I couldn't find exact stats but a couple articles noted that the vast majority had sever underlying issues, other illnesses that aided Covid's impact, or were technically out of the 14 day window but could have contracted it earlier.

Even as a science-loving liberal I'm definitely struggling with some family and friends who are a month clear of their 2nd jab and are acting like absolutely nothing has changed. I still don't think the entire state of Virginia has had a single healthy kid under 10 get COVID and die, but schools where the entire staff was prioritized and vaccinated long ago won't open because its turned into a bargaining chip.

Despite all of that, as folks come out of this thing with their own experiences, baggage, issues, etc. - it's a real dick move to pressure or try to force them into situations they're not comfortable in yet.
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Good take, especially the last sentence. The Biden administration has been erring on the side of caution but they need to move toward the middle now. I think that's going to come within the next month after the school year ends. What matters is how particularly with respect to children who can't get vaccinated yet.

JuiceCrewAllStar said:
the lack of any federal leadership and coordination on the response has really come to a head here

you have people on both ends taking things way too far

I'm just tired of being talked down to for over a year
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This reads like some anti-government FAUCI CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO nonsense. I know that's not what you mean but it does.

The goal this whole time has been herd immunity, but do we really care about people who don't care enough about themselves? The question shouldn't be "how to we get assholes to take the vaccine so they don't die?" We need to spend energy taking care of people who can't take the vaccine.
 
Fauci is a horrible public health spokesman because he is 100% a scientist. He will not give a definite because there are no definites in a science. So it’s always a moving number, it’s always this is the way it is but.. and then some small statistical possibility that technically could happen but most likely won’t. People need just black and white answers because nuanced applications and statistics are too complex.

This also includes all the guidelines from other agencies as well, because you end up with stuff like if you are vaccinated you can meet indoors with 5 people who are also vaccinated, but 3 have to be your family, but knock it down to 4 people if one is unvaccinated, but make it 10 if everyone wears masks. Like sure let me just remember that. To be fair everyone was put in a horrible position because of the last administration and now everything is on the opposite spectrum of extreme caution.
 
Fauci has been working in the federal government for 40+ years and the general public had never heard of him until last year. Much of that is because previous administrations had spokespeople and such who could communicate public health messages. Fauci was only one part of the whole plan to address public health crises. The Trump administration had no plan. They tore apart the playbook. They just left people on an island to deal with it and then criticized them if they made mistakes.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
I really don't give a fuck anymore. If you want to get a vaccine you can walk into a CVS and get one. Shit you can pick between the three which one you would prefer. If your not vaccinated now that's a personal choice.

I will wear a mask if I am required to and not bitch about it, but if it is not required I am going to be on team science and trust in the vaccine.
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This is where I am as well.
 
I think when schools open on a normal schedule next August that will be the final sign that things are basically back to normal. I've had some teacher friends tell me that they're hearing that schools in NC will reopen on a normal schedule next year, but possibly still require masks indoors. I agree that they'll reopen on a normal schedule, but I'm no longer sure that they'll be wearing masks, as the consensus about that appears to be changing, especially since so many teachers and other staff in NC schools have been vaccinated. At any rate I do think that if governors or other state or federal officials try to hold back on allowing more and more public activities to return to normal this summer there will be hell to pay, and not just from the usual suspects. People who have been vaccinated are going to go out and return to a normal routine as much as possible, I would think.
 
Deacon923 said:
I have been watching the "deaths per day" number. It's been steadily trending down and is below 400. For reference, in a typical flu year, roughly 100 Americans die of the flu per day on average (obviously more in the winter and less in the summer).
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The 7 day rolling average daily COVID death rate in the US is 618 deaths per day. (This is a good way to look at the data because it accounts for reporting irregularities.)
 
Liquid Karma said:
All of these things occurring in statistically insignificant quantities except for the under age 16 group, which largely doesn't get seriously ill from the virus and now doesn't have the burden of being considered vectors that could take down their (at the time) unvaccinated grandparents.

But you knew those were outliers and not the actual assholes he is referring to.
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The numbers of people that can’t take the vaccine or don’t respond to the vaccine are not statistically insignificant at all. About 10% of the US population is on immune suppressing meds or has a disease causing immunosuppression. This is tens of millions of people in the US.

Obviously as the COVID prevalence decreases, restrictions should be peeled back. But there is no reason for an all or none approach - that ignores the fact that some situations are much riskier than others and we still need to decrease spread as much as possible. And there definitely is no reason to fight with individuals that personally choose to return to normal at a slower pace than you prefer.
 
Deacon923 said:
I have been watching the "deaths per day" number. It's been steadily trending down and is below 400. For reference, in a typical flu year, roughly 100 Americans die of the flu per day on average (obviously more in the winter and less in the summer). Pretty soon we will be approaching the level of deaths per day that would be expected in a "bad" flu year. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

We don't require everyone to get a flu vaccine, or shame them, or all wear masks and stay in our houses during a "bad" flu year.

Now COVID is not the same as the flu ("long flu" is not a thing, for example) but I think the comparison is worth considering. If and when we get to a place where COVID deaths per day are 200 or below, we have to reasonably ask ourselves whether restrictions should continue.
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I’m pretty sure that many will be wearing masks in certain situations during flu season for many years to come. At the doctor’s office, on airplanes, etc. The decrease in flu this year, because of distancing and masking, has been incredible.
 
Rafi said:
The numbers of people that can’t take the vaccine or don’t respond to the vaccine are not statistically insignificant at all. About 10% of the US population is on immune suppressing meds or has a disease causing immunosuppression. This is tens of millions of people in the US.

Obviously as the COVID prevalence decreases, restrictions should be peeled back. But there is no reason for an all or none approach - that ignores the fact that some situations are much riskier than others and we still need to decrease spread as much as possible. And there definitely is no reason to fight with individuals that personally choose to return to normal at a slower pace than you prefer.
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pardon my laziness here for asking you instead of researching - so if someone is on Embrel/Humira/Remicade, or has received a transplant, are you saying they should not get the Covid-19 vaccine? Or just that it may have reduced effectiveness?
 
thatguy2016 said:
pardon my laziness here for asking you instead of researching - so if someone is on Embrel/Humira/Remicade, or has received a transplant, are you saying they should not get the Covid-19 vaccine? Or just that it may have reduced effectiveness?
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No, they should absolutely get the vaccine. But, it may not be as effective if they are on those meds (or many other immune suppressing meds). In solid organ transplant patients it was only about 40% effective.
 
Effective defined as preventing from getting COVID or in preventing the worst outcomes?
 
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