CP3 was on the next up list at the end of last year. He should climb steadily up throughout the next few years. Tim is getting up in to the tops on both of the lists mentioned but this guy named LeBron is 24th and appears to be moving up quickly.
CP3 makes the top 25 all time assists and Tim continues to climb in points and rbound
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Duncan is #7 in all-time blocks and would need almost 100 blocks to pass Patrick Ewing at #6. He is 116 rebounds from moving into Top 10 all time in rebounds. Sits at #19 in all time scoring but will pass Jerry West (needs 38 points) and Reggie Miller (needs 125 points). Alex English is 458 points ahead. Paul Pierce is currently 117 points ahead of Tim (Duncan is averaging 1 point / game more than Pierce).
I don't think blocks were kept much before the merger.
Also it was much harder to get assists in the pre-late 80s. Oscar would have averaged 15-18 apg under today's scoring. Mo Cheeks would likely have had 10-12,000 assists today. Cousy, Wilkens and Guy Rodgers would have had 10,000 assists today.
If Chris stays healthy, he can challenge Kidd for #2.
Also it was much harder to get assists in the pre-late 80s. Oscar would have averaged 15-18 apg under today's scoring. Mo Cheeks would likely have had 10-12,000 assists today. Cousy, Wilkens and Guy Rodgers would have had 10,000 assists today.
If Chris stays healthy, he can challenge Kidd for #2.
Deacfreak07
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This site combines NBA / ABA data - http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/
Deacfreak07
Ain't played nobody, PAWL!
Deaconblue
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Tim is still averaging a little over 2 blocks per game, so passing Ewing would look like done by the end of the current season.
He should move into top 10 rebounding by the end of this month. Both Tim and Kevin Garnett should pass Nate Thurmond and be closing in on Robert Parrish by the end of the season.
With 62 games remaining in the current regular season, he should move past the next three retired players on the all time scoring list this season. Getting past #15 will take longer, as Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce will get there sooner.
DeaconSlim2.0
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Wouldn't that just be the 80s?
RChildress107
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I'm guessing it would be a waste of time to point out to RJ that adjusted for pace Oscar's assist numbers wouldn't be that impressive?
Found this post from a while ago:
So even if statkeepers are 20% more generous now than in Oscar's time (doubtful) he would still only average around 11 assists a game if he were playing today.
Found this post from a while ago:
So even if statkeepers are 20% more generous now than in Oscar's time (doubtful) he would still only average around 11 assists a game if he were playing today.
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Per possession has nothing to do with it. I said "under today's scoring".
Let's look at one of the players I chose- Lenny Wilkens. In 1964-65, he was the primary ball-handler for the Hawks. They averaged 111.4 ppg. He was their primary distributor. He played 39MPG, yet was only credited with 5.7 APG.
He had the ball they scored more. Their primary scorer as a post player. Lenny got him the ball a lot.
How about another person I mentioned? Bob Cousy. In 58-59. the Celtics averaged 116.ppg. Cousy always had the ball. He played 37MPG, yet he only averaged 8.6 apgf according to Basketball-reference.
Childress will try to change my words into saying "if they PLAYED today". I DIDN'T say that. I said "under today's scoring".
Let's look at one of the players I chose- Lenny Wilkens. In 1964-65, he was the primary ball-handler for the Hawks. They averaged 111.4 ppg. He was their primary distributor. He played 39MPG, yet was only credited with 5.7 APG.
He had the ball they scored more. Their primary scorer as a post player. Lenny got him the ball a lot.
How about another person I mentioned? Bob Cousy. In 58-59. the Celtics averaged 116.ppg. Cousy always had the ball. He played 37MPG, yet he only averaged 8.6 apgf according to Basketball-reference.
Childress will try to change my words into saying "if they PLAYED today". I DIDN'T say that. I said "under today's scoring".
DeaconSlim2.0
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Per Possession stats are a great way to compare stats between players that played during different eras. So it does matter a bit
From the Wall Street Journal:
"Assists in basketball are comparable to errors in baseball. They're decent indicators of performance -- but they're also splashed with a healthy dose of subjectivity. Fluctuations in the way assists are recorded in different arenas, not to mention the league's bare-bones description of what an assist actually is, make them difficult to interpret."
"On the road, however, they may be awarded fewer. For nine of the NBA's 30 teams, the gap between road and home assists performance is at least 8%. Denver's spread was the biggest: more than 17% at home."
"Justin Kubatko, a statistics analyst with the Portland Trail Blazers and vice president of Sports Reference LLC, couldn't pinpoint why the increase occurred, but says "at some point along the line, the way a scorekeeper viewed an assist dramatically changed."
Yes, there was more scoring in the late 50s-mid 70s. But Harvey Pollack didn't invent the assist as a stat until the mid-50s. No one really cared about it.
It wasn't really until Magic that you started hearing about triple doubles.
Today stats mean more than ever. In days gone by, if the guy dribbled, you didn't get an assist.
"Assists in basketball are comparable to errors in baseball. They're decent indicators of performance -- but they're also splashed with a healthy dose of subjectivity. Fluctuations in the way assists are recorded in different arenas, not to mention the league's bare-bones description of what an assist actually is, make them difficult to interpret."
"On the road, however, they may be awarded fewer. For nine of the NBA's 30 teams, the gap between road and home assists performance is at least 8%. Denver's spread was the biggest: more than 17% at home."
"Justin Kubatko, a statistics analyst with the Portland Trail Blazers and vice president of Sports Reference LLC, couldn't pinpoint why the increase occurred, but says "at some point along the line, the way a scorekeeper viewed an assist dramatically changed."
Yes, there was more scoring in the late 50s-mid 70s. But Harvey Pollack didn't invent the assist as a stat until the mid-50s. No one really cared about it.
It wasn't really until Magic that you started hearing about triple doubles.
Today stats mean more than ever. In days gone by, if the guy dribbled, you didn't get an assist.
that doesn't address the point at all that ignoring the impact of the possessions in a game has also had a big impact on individual statistics. it probably has a bigger effect (and more widespread to other statistics) than a simple change in scorekeeper philosophy.
JamesSokolove
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I can't wait for that usual suspect Childress to try to change his words
RChildress107
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So that's a yes.
RJ's claim can really only be (kind of) verified by looking at game tape, scoring assists based on "today's scoring" (whatever that means), and then comparing that to box scores. The only evidence he has is that since Cousy had the ball alot and the Celtics scored a lot he had to have had more than 8.6 assists per game.
Strickland33
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#eyetest 1 #stats 0
I never said anything about pace. It's totally irrelevant to what I posted.
Being snarky isn't going to get you a response. Why would I respond to your concept if you choose to change the concept to fit the answers you desire?
It's not just me. I gave quotes about it.
But Childress isn't interested. Like usual, he wants the rules to be his own.
i'd guess if you plotted league-wide assists per possession we'd see the trend. granted other factors would impact that as well (style of play being the main one).