CP3 was on the next up list at the end of last year. He should climb steadily up throughout the next few years. Tim is getting up in to the tops on both of the lists mentioned but this guy named LeBron is 24th and appears to be moving up quickly.
I don't think blocks were kept much before the merger.
Also it was much harder to get assists in the pre-late 80s. Oscar would have averaged 15-18 apg under today's scoring. Mo Cheeks would likely have had 10-12,000 assists today. Cousy, Wilkens and Guy Rodgers would have had 10,000 assists today.
If Chris stays healthy, he can challenge Kidd for #2.
Duncan is #7 in all-time blocks and would need almost 100 blocks to pass Patrick Ewing at #6. He is 116 rebounds from moving into Top 10 all time in rebounds. Sits at #19 in all time scoring but will pass Jerry West (needs 38 points) and Reggie Miller (needs 125 points). Alex English is 458 points ahead. Paul Pierce is currently 117 points ahead of Tim (Duncan is averaging 1 point / game more than Pierce).
I don't think blocks were kept much before the merger.
Also it was much harder to get assists in the pre-late 80s. Oscar would have averaged 15-18 apg under today's scoring. Mo Cheeks would likely have had 10-12,000 assists today. Cousy, Wilkens and Guy Rodgers would have had 10,000 assists today.
If Chris stays healthy, he can challenge Kidd for #2.
Oscar played more minutes than modern players and at a torrid pace. I've included per game, per 36 minutes, and pace adjusted stats for the first 5 years of his career (over which he averaged a triple double) in comparison to great point guards from 20 and 40 years later. All stats come from basketball-reference.com with some math in between there and here. Pace adjusted stats are in bold.
Oscar Robertson first 5 years:
per game: 30.3 points, 10.6 assists, 10.4 rebounds
per 36 minutes: 24.6 points, 8.6 assists, 8.4 rebounds
per 100 poss.*: 26.6 points, 9.3 assists, 9.1 rebounds
* League average pace from 1960-1964 was ~ 125 possessions per game (I used this estimate to calculate Oscar's per possession stats in absence of more detailed pace information).
Magic Johnson first 5 years:
per game: 18.1 points, 9.8 assists, 8.4 rebounds
per 36 min.: 17.5 points, 9.5 assists, 8.1 rebounds
per 100 poss.: 22.5 points, 12.2 assists, 10.4 rebounds
Chris Paul first 5 years:
per game: 19.2 points, 10 assists, 4.7 rebounds
per 36 min.: 18.6 points, 9.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds
per 100 poss.: 27.8 points, 14.3 assists, 6.8 rebounds
Per possession has nothing to do with it. I said "under today's scoring".
Let's look at one of the players I chose- Lenny Wilkens. In 1964-65, he was the primary ball-handler for the Hawks. They averaged 111.4 ppg. He was their primary distributor. He played 39MPG, yet was only credited with 5.7 APG.
He had the ball they scored more. Their primary scorer as a post player. Lenny got him the ball a lot.
How about another person I mentioned? Bob Cousy. In 58-59. the Celtics averaged 116.ppg. Cousy always had the ball. He played 37MPG, yet he only averaged 8.6 apgf according to Basketball-reference.
Childress will try to change my words into saying "if they PLAYED today". I DIDN'T say that. I said "under today's scoring".
I'm guessing it would be a waste of time to point out to RJ that adjusted for pace Oscar's assist numbers wouldn't be that impressive?
Found this post from a while ago:
So even if statkeepers are 20% more generous now than in Oscar's time (doubtful) he would still only average around 11 assists a game if he were playing today.
So that's a yes.
RJ's claim can really only be (kind of) verified by looking at game tape, scoring assists based on "today's scoring" (whatever that means), and then comparing that to box scores. The only evidence he has is that since Cousy had the ball alot and the Celtics scored a lot he had to have had more than 8.6 assists per game.
So that's a yes.
RJ's claim can really only be (kind of) verified by looking at game tape, scoring assists based on "today's scoring" (whatever that means), and then comparing that to box scores. The only evidence he has is that since Cousy had the ball alot and the Celtics scored a lot he had to have had more than 8.6 assists per game.