CS wages down again, H-1B visas having an impact?

[BobStackFan4Life]

I’ve often emphasized the age issue for H-1B; employers hire young H-1Bs in lieu of older (age 35+) Americans. There is also a preference for young Americans, of course, and I’ve cited many public statements, ads and so on showing that when Intel, Facebook, Microsoft and so on say there is a shortage of Americans in tech, they mean YOUNG Americans.

But things are not necessarily that great for new American grads in tech either. Analyses, e.g. those of Tony Carnevale, indicate that most computer science grads are working outside the field. Some such grads do so by choice, of course, and some others may simply not be highly skilled enough. But many are in neither of these categories, and are being passed over in favor of new-grad foreign students, who are cheaper and, if sponsored for a green card, immobile. And being cheaper, they hold down overall wages.

Thus the salaries of new grads provide a key window into conditions of the labor market. Fortunately, excellent data is available from the National Association of Colleges and Employers. Detailed data requires NACE membership, but the organization releases several summaries per year.

Over the years, I’ve cited these summaries, which have consistently found that salaries for new CS grads are flat (including the case of very mild increases) or actually falling. The latest NACE data show that this trend is continuing, in spite of the increasingly load drumbeat from the tech industry lobbyists that the universities are not producing enough CS grads. The mean new-grad CS wage actually fell slightly. Yet you can knock on doors on Capitol Hill all day and not find a single staffer who’s ever heard of NACE.

https://normsaysno.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/cs-wages-down-again-and-other-developments/#comments

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

H1B visas and US Presidential Candidates: A primer

It is an understatement to say that Trump is against the H1B visa. He positively loathes it, and has withering criticism for Marco Rubio, whom he considers a lackey to Silicon Valley and Mark Zuckerberg in particular, calling him the Facebook founder's "personal senator". What really gets his goat about Rubio is the Florida Senator's past plan to triple H1Bs, which he says would "decimate women and minorities".

Trump thinks that the STEM (people in the fields of science, technology, engineering and math) shortage is a malicious myth. "We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H1B program," the campaign's position paper said. It also maintained that more than half of H1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than 80 percent for its bottom two, the Trump campaign said, although there's plenty of heated debate around this issue

Marco Rubio is the darling of Silicon Valley and the tech industry in general. Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg finds the Republican Florida senator a valuable enough asset to have funnelled him campaign funds in the past, earning Rubio the scorn of Donald Trump.

The reason for both adulation and scorn is because Rubio is an unabashed champion of the H1B visa. His version of the 2013 Immigration Bill would have bumped up the annual H1B quota by 45,000 slots. That proposal didn't go through, but he's since tried to salvage it by offering an even more audacious increase via his I-Squared bill: a tripling of the amount to 195,000 H1B visas.

Republican Ted Cruz gets the prize for being the most enigmatic senator for his somewhat bizarre, radical shift in position on tech immigration. Originally pushing for a more nuanced, moderate view a few years ago that overwhelmingly supported H1Bs and immigration in general during the bitterly contested Senate Immigration Bill in 2013, this Texas senator swerved dramatically towards the extreme right while on the campaign trail late last year.

Hillary Clinton, Democratic nominee for president and a former Secretary of State, hasn't said a whole lot on H1Bs, at least in comparison to her Republican foes. In fact, she doesn't mention it at all in her immigration platform.

That's because Clinton is someone who tends to bend with the wind on this issue. In 2007, in a speech to top Silicon Valley executives, she was very clearly on the side of boosting H1B numbers. " I am reaffirming my commitment to the H1B visa and increasing the current cap. Foreign skilled workers contribute greatly to what we have to do in being innovators," she said to loud applause.

In a surreal twist, Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders (the Vermont Senator seeking a Democratic nomination for president), who normally occupy starkly contrasting positions on pretty much any issue, actually do have one thing in common: their distaste for H1B visas.

"What I do not support is, under the guise of immigrant reform, a process pushed by large corporations which results in more unemployment and lower wages for American workers," he said in an interview with the Washington Post.

"I find it hard to understand that, when 9 million people in this country have degrees in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields, only about 3 million have jobs in these areas," he added.

http://www.zdnet.com/pictures/h1b-visas-and-us-presidential-candidates-a-primer/

 

[EatLeadCommie]

They have gotten out of control. In the late 90s, they did a boost to accommodate the dotcom boom. That made sense at the time, but it quickly went bonkers. Just look at the numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#H-1B_visas_issued_per_year

Add to that the fact that a lot of these guys have adjusted status (received their green cards) over the years and stayed in the industry. And then add onto the that the fact that the 6 year limit was effectively made moot when there was a backlog in the labor certification process at the DOL many years ago. The H1B could then be extended indefinitely until they adjusted status.

In short, reform and a huge decrease (like by at least half) in the cap is needed.

 

[IckerDeac]

H1B allows employers to get the best of the best. Most top companies in the Silicon Valley are hiring the top 10-20% at the best CS schools. I see very few American born candidates in this category -- people don't realize that 'US innovation' in the valley is run primarily off of foreign talent. Reducing H1B by 50% would absolutely kill the tech industry -- I can't run my team with B-league programmers.

I'm also surprised by the idea that CS salaries are flat -- in the valley there is a huge run up in salaries. 130K starting is the new low end and I've see new college hires get 160-170K.

 

[dot com]

I work in the industry and have no problem with it. Keep brain-draining other countries imo.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

H1B allows employers to get the best of the best. Most top companies in the Silicon Valley are hiring the top 10-20% at the best CS schools. I see very few American born candidates in this category -- people don't realize that 'US innovation' in the valley is run primarily off of foreign talent. Reducing H1B by 50% would absolutely kill the tech industry -- I can't run my team with B-league programmers.

I'm also surprised by the idea that CS salaries are flat -- in the valley there is a huge run up in salaries. 130K starting is the new low end and I've see new college hires get 160-170K.

SV is a different animal entirely. Most of the H1Bs are kids coming to work for Infosys or some outfit at the minimally acceptable salary per DOL. they're then outsourced to whatever companies need them and aren't paid what they are supposed to be paid much of the time. They are almost all Indian kids with CS or electrical engineering degrees.

Ted Cruz has actually proposed making h1B visas $100k/yr minimum jobs, which makes some sense, but that's only a start. 100k would have to be indexed to inflation at the very least. And halving the numbers wouldn't suddenly deprive you of your team members. It would just mean we aren't going to bring over 160000 of them every year. You'd still have another 800000 floating around with a year left on their H status, not counting those who have stayed and adjusted status.

There are other avenues as well. It isn't like a big multinational company can't use the L visas.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3030270/it-careers/sen-blumenthal-demands-lifting-of-it-gag-order.html

"In light of Sen. Blumenthal's recent letter to Tom May, former and current Eversource employees are relieved that Tom May is finally under scrutiny, but sadly, feel a sense of discouragement. Eversource has a very large in-house legal team and an active Political Action Committee in Washington. 'We'll be lucky if he gets his hands slapped,' one person said. 'Where was everyone two years ago when this was happening? It's too late now.' "

 

[wakephan09]

Cut all tech jobs. The singularity will kill us all.

 

[awaken]

Manufacturing jobs were sent abroad with NAFTA and China's MFN trade status, saying that the American economy needs to be white collar. Now those jobs are being outsourced. What kind of economy/jobs are we supposed to have?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

below jobs

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

75% of Silicon Valley tech, computer, and STEM jobs going to foreigners, at a time when America has more trained STEM graduates than STEM openings? Are the majority of native born Americans benefiting from this influx?

The area's ethnic demographics related to jobs is also shifting. Thirty-seven percent of the population in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties are foreign born, compared to 13 percent in the U.S. overall. Among the working population, 45 percent are foreign born, but in the tech, computer and STEM industries, that number rises to 75 percent, according to the Index.

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2016/02/10/silicon-valleys-year-amazing-but-with-perils

For every two students that U.S. colleges graduate with STEM degrees, only one is hired into a STEM job.
In computer and information science and in engineering, U.S. colleges graduate 50 percent more students than are hired into those fields each year; of the computer science graduates not entering the IT workforce, 32 percent say it is because IT jobs are unavailable, and 53 percent say they found better job opportunities outside of IT occupations. These responses suggest that the supply of graduates is substantially larger than the demand for them in industry.

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp359-guestworkers-high-skill-labor-market-analysis/

 

[PhDeac]

I actually know the second author of the report in the second link. We were on a National Academy of Engineering committee together.

I'm guessing the report says it, but I'm not going to do a detailed read. A lot of CIS and engineering majors end up in business and finance occupations. There's a substantial demand for US STEM majors, but that demand is spread across industry sectors. I did a paper several years ago I never got around to finishing on the extent to which STEM majors are spread out in their post-graduate employment. One of the big things I found was that women and non-Asian minority STEM majors were most likely to be in non-STEM fields, likely for a variety of reasons.

I don't think the story is as simple as immigrants taking all the STEM jobs on the cheap although it clearly happens.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

I don't think the story is as simple as immigrants taking all the STEM jobs on the cheap although it clearly happens.

I agree. Much of it is due to Americans finding better opportunities in other fields. The authors mention that.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

The Impact of High-Skilled Immigration on U.S. Workers

Subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest
You can watch live here:
http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/meetings/the-impact-of-high-skilled-immigration-on-us-workers

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

This guy was one of hundreds of Disney employees that were replaced by foreign workers. Disney told everyone if they wanted their severance they would have to train their replacements. He breaks down crying during his testimony.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Intel Lays Off 12,000 After Seeking Visas to Import 14,523 Foreign Professionals Since 2010

Technology giant Intel announced April 19 it will fire 12,000 skilled U.S.-based professionals — after already swelling its workforce with 14,523 requests in Washington D.C. since 2010 for visas to import foreign professionals through the controversial H-1B and Green Card programs.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/21/intel-lays-off-12k-looking-import-11600-foreign-workers-since-2010/

 

[PhDeac]

LOL filing that under big government.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

American corporations are under new scrutiny from federal lawmakers after well-publicized episodes in which the companies laid off American workers and gave the jobs to foreigners on temporary visas.

But while corporate executives have been outspoken in defending their labor practices before Congress and the public, the American workers who lost jobs to global outsourcing companies have been largely silent.

Until recently. Now some of the workers who were displaced are starting to speak out, despite severance agreements prohibiting them from criticizing their former employers.

“It is very frustrating that you can’t share your story with the public,” said one former Abbott manager, who had worked for the company for 13 years, rising to an important supervisory position. He had prepared a 90-page manual for his foreign replacements showing how to perform every detail of his work. With a disabled child who requires medical care, he said he had to take his severance and its nondisparagement clause, since it extended his medical benefits. So he asked to remain anonymous.

“I’ve been laid off before, I can understand that,” he said. “But these visas were meant to fill in gaps for resources that are hard to find. This time the company actually asked me to transfer my knowledge to somebody else. That changes the equation.”

According to federal rules, temporary visas known as H-1Bs are for foreigners with “a body of specialized knowledge” not readily available in the labor market. The visas should be granted only when they will not undercut the wages or “adversely affect the working conditions” of Americans.
But in the past five years, through loopholes in the rules, tens of thousands of American workers have been replaced by foreigners on H-1B and other temporary visas, according to Prof. Hal Salzman, a labor force expert at Rutgers University.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/us/laid-off-americans-required-to-zip-lips-on-way-out-grow-bolder.html?_r=0

 

[dot com]

It's a shame they don't have unions to protect them from those practices.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Clinton also supported greater white-collar outsourcing while she was Secretary of State. In fact, her own Clinton Foundation used the H-1B program to hire up to 130 foreign graduates, from 2004 to 2016, instead of hiring Americans.

Overall, “her past statements in support of H-1B visas, and her silence in this campaign even when Bernie Sanders criticised her for her past support of H-1B visas, mean that she will probably support the H-1B visa programme if she is elected president,” according to Cyrus Mehta, an immigration lawyer on Wall Street. If elected, she “will push Congress in the direction of expanding rather than curtailing the H-1B visa,” he wrote in May.
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/09/30/hillary-clintons-h-1b-outsourcing-program-has-100000-foreign-workers-in-midwest-white-collar-jobs/