Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[RChildress107]

We have three very winnable road games in the next 12 days. We need to win two of those.

We should be favored at State and at BC, and potentially at Cuse depending on how the State game goes.

Feeling pretty good about State. They are #76 in Kenpom and we have road wins over #90 by 17 and #107 by 8. Playing in raleigh is a much different animal but I think this is the year we break the curse.

 

[RChildress107]

....but is he credible or not? There's 28 pages, surely there is an answer.

The correct answer this year so far has consistently been yes.

Assuming you agree that consistently playing like a top 45 team in year 3 of a rebuild of this magnitude makes a coach credible.

 

[Deacsfan27]

State has the 162nd ranked defense against our 18th ranked offense. That's in theory a pretty big issue for them.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

I thought Manning's two timeouts last night were, for lack of a better term, very timely. IIRC, one was after UM hit back-to-back threes in the first half, and the other was after a spurt to cut the lead to 12 or 11.

The season has a much different outlook--or at least different tone on this thread--if we had just won the damn Clemson game. Regardless, we're clearly much improved, and need to rattle off some wins here. We're at 43% or better in our next five, per KenPom

 

[Bourrc9]

I thought Manning's two timeouts last night were, for lack of a better term, very timely. IIRC, one was after UM hit back-to-back threes in the first half, and the other was after a spurt to cut the lead to 12 or 11.

The season has a much different outlook--or at least different tone on this thread--if we had just won the damn Clemson game. Regardless, we're clearly much improved, and need to rattle off some wins here. We're at 43% or better in our next five, per KenPom

Whats our kenpom % v. Duke @ home?

 

[Deacsfan27]

Whats our kenpom % v. Duke @ home?

Next five:

@ State - 56%
@ Cuse - 46%
Duke - 43%
@ BC - 78%
GT - 84%

Win expectancy is 3.07 games.

 

[Pilchard]

Answered above.

 

[PhDeac]

Next five:

@ State - 56%
@ Cuse - 46%
Duke - 43%
@ BC - 78%
GT - 84%

Win expectancy is 3.07 games.

At 43% and above, all five are winnable games.

 

[Deacsfan27]

At 43% and above, all five are winnable games.

Yup. Before last night I said 4-2 is probably what we need to do in these 6 games, with 3-3 as a baseline.

We are now in great shape to at least hit the baseline with just @BC and Tech, and then we have a 1.45 expectancy in the other three where we need to just get 1 to get to 4.

Shaping up nicely.

 

[CantStandYa]

Credit where credit is due. We had a sound plan on both sides of the ball last night and Manning managed a difficult foul situation exceptionally well. Collins was superb in the way he played careful, but not loose, defense with his fouls late in the second half, and that's a credit to both him and the staff. We withstood a number of rallies from a talented Miami team, but never let them get closer than six (and often responded with rallies of our own). The latter was certainly missing from the FSU and Clemson debacles.

I'd like to see if the team can translate the positives from last night (and the second half of the UNC game) to a road atmosphere. We have a perfect opportunity to do so this weekend. Maybe this isn't the same old Wake Forest team that can't win on the road, or maybe it is.

On a completely different subject, that game was near unwatchable. Every trip down the floor, for both offenses, seemed to result in a whistle. If that's what college basketball is turning into, I might have to suck it up and check out the NBA.

 

[Deacsfan27]

I think we are starting to see what Manning did early in the season pay some dividends. He stuck with Chill to the chagrin of nearly everybody (myself included), and that is helping out now. Collins is finally learning how to play without fouling and can be trusted more now. Key is getting basically 35 minutes a game and Mitch is thriving in his role off the bench (14-30 from behind the arc since the Xavier game, which Key started).

There are still micro-lineup issues, but from a macro standpoint, the team is coming together quite nicely.

 

[RChildress107]

I think we are starting to see what Manning did early in the season pay some dividends. He stuck with Chill to the chagrin of nearly everybody (myself included), and that is helping out now. Collins is finally learning how to play without fouling and can be trusted more now. Key is getting basically 35 minutes a game and Mitch is thriving in his role off the bench (14-30 from behind the arc since the Xavier game, which Key started).

There are still micro-lineup issues, but from a macro standpoint, the team is coming together quite nicely.

It's almost like he's a good coach or something.

 

[pourdeac]

I thought Manning's two timeouts last night were, for lack of a better term, very timely. IIRC, one was after UM hit back-to-back threes in the first half, and the other was after a spurt to cut the lead to 12 or 11.

The season has a much different outlook--or at least different tone on this thread--if we had just won the damn Clemson game. Regardless, we're clearly much improved, and need to rattle off some wins here. We're at 43% or better in our next five, per KenPom

Well sure and that just shows how ridiculous the over-the-top criticism has been.

IMO Manning has a philosophy a lot like Mike Tomlin. They don't necessarily play to win, they focus on building a strong team through adversity, and they believe building a strong team then leads to winning.

Tomlin intentionally puts players/position groups in positions where they have to step up on their own to test them. In the first Miami game this year, he left Antonio Brown on the edge all game outside the numbers, which eliminated most of his route tree and took away AB's advantage...he was just pushed up against the sideline all game. That forced the other WRs to have step up and elevate their play. On D, we rarely blitzed that game, in order to get the front 4 to pressure on their own. A lot of fans called it bad coaching, but it was all intentional....with a longer arc viewpoint to forge a team, one that is now paying off.

IMO Manning does the same kinds of things. I think the "crazy" rotations last year were done for the long term. This year whatever he trying to establish last years is now part of the culture and the rotations have been tightened up. Likewise, I think he's been letting them play a lot this year, without calling TOs, in order to get the team core of Crawford, Collins, and Wood to gel and step up as leaders during times of adversity and to finish teams off. People call it "deer in the headlights" but I think he's intentionally letting them play to force their maturity. When they finally gel and play well through adversity...and it's just a matter of time...then we'll have the leadership to really win a lot of games AND the culture will have been established that will set the example down the road. We'll probably see "better" use of TOs when that happens, just like we've seen better rotations after that was such a contentious issue last year.

Last night was a huge step in the right direction. RPI <30. Best in years. Credible.

 

[mercurydime]

Well sure and that just shows how ridiculous the over-the-top criticism has been.

IMO Manning has a philosophy a lot like Mike Tomlin. They don't necessarily play to win, they focus on building a strong team through adversity, and they believe building a strong team then leads to winning.

Tomlin intentionally puts players/position groups in positions where they have to step up on their own to test them. In the first Miami game this year, he left Antonio Brown on the edge all game outside the numbers, which eliminated most of his route tree and took away AB's advantage...he was just pushed up against the sideline all game. That forced the other WRs to have step up and elevate their play. On D, we rarely blitzed that game, in order to get the front 4 to pressure on their own. A lot of fans called it bad coaching, but it was all intentional....with a longer arc viewpoint to forge a team, one that is now paying off.

IMO Manning does the same kinds of things. I think the "crazy" rotations last year were done for the long term. This year whatever he trying to establish last years is now part of the culture and the rotations have been tightened up. Likewise, I think he's been letting them play a lot this year, without calling TOs, in order to get the team core of Crawford, Collins, and Wood to gel and step up as leaders during times of adversity and to finish teams off. People call it "deer in the headlights" but I think he's intentionally letting them play to force their maturity. When they finally gel and play well through adversity...and it's just a matter of time...then we'll have the leadership to really win a lot of games AND the culture will have been established that will set the example down the road. We'll probably see "better" use of TOs when that happens, just like we've seen better rotations after that was such a contentious issue last year.

Last night was a huge step in the right direction. RPI <30. Best in years. Credible.

I appreciate this take on things.

 

[WakeFanatic]

Newest Bracketology has us as one of the last four in, playing VCU in a play-in game.

 

[marquee moon]

Yup. Before last night I said 4-2 is probably what we need to do in these 6 games, with 3-3 as a baseline.

We are now in great shape to at least hit the baseline with just @BC and Tech, and then we have a 1.45 expectancy in the other three where we need to just get 1 to get to 4.

Shaping up nicely.

 

[siff]

It's almost like he's a good coach or something.

:thumbsup:

 

[Biff Tannen]

Seemed credible last night. We were honestly a better team than our opponent last night, which is nice.

 

[siff]

I think we are starting to see what Manning did early in the season pay some dividends. He stuck with Chill to the chagrin of nearly everybody (myself included), and that is helping out now. Collins is finally learning how to play without fouling and can be trusted more now. Key is getting basically 35 minutes a game and Mitch is thriving in his role off the bench (14-30 from behind the arc since the Xavier game, which Key started).

There are still micro-lineup issues, but from a macro standpoint, the team is coming together quite nicely.

Danny's even using TOs more often now. :bowrofl:

 

[CantStandYa]

Well sure and that just shows how ridiculous the over-the-top criticism has been.

IMO Manning has a philosophy a lot like Mike Tomlin. They don't necessarily play to win, they focus on building a strong team through adversity, and they believe building a strong team then leads to winning.

Tomlin intentionally puts players/position groups in positions where they have to step up on their own to test them. In the first Miami game this year, he left Antonio Brown on the edge all game outside the numbers, which eliminated most of his route tree and took away AB's advantage...he was just pushed up against the sideline all game. That forced the other WRs to have step up and elevate their play. On D, we rarely blitzed that game, in order to get the front 4 to pressure on their own. A lot of fans called it bad coaching, but it was all intentional....with a longer arc viewpoint to forge a team, one that is now paying off.

IMO Manning does the same kinds of things. I think the "crazy" rotations last year were done for the long term. This year whatever he trying to establish last years is now part of the culture and the rotations have been tightened up. Likewise, I think he's been letting them play a lot this year, without calling TOs, in order to get the team core of Crawford, Collins, and Wood to gel and step up as leaders during times of adversity and to finish teams off. People call it "deer in the headlights" but I think he's intentionally letting them play to force their maturity. When they finally gel and play well through adversity...and it's just a matter of time...then we'll have the leadership to really win a lot of games AND the culture will have been established that will set the example down the road. We'll probably see "better" use of TOs when that happens, just like we've seen better rotations after that was such a contentious issue last year.

Last night was a huge step in the right direction. RPI <30. Best in years. Credible.

This was phenomenal. You realize Tomlin made the playoffs in his second year and won the freaking Super Bowl in his third right? I'm pretty sure he'd laugh in your face if you told him his philosophy is "not necessarily playing to win".

10/10. Would read again.