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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

birdman said:
If y'all are satisfied with the way things are going, good for you, you're a better fan than I. I'm embarrassed and frustrated and looking for reasons. It's pretty hard for me to see the loss of Collins and the subsequent complete collapse of the team and not question the quality of the coach.
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I haven’t said at any point I’m satisfied with the current state of the team. But Collins and Dinos were both a product of Manning’s coaching ability - and they were good enough to leave early. When you’re not pumping out one and dones it’s difficult to be successful after two of your top 3-4 players leave (especially when one was expected to return until LATE in the grad transfer cycle). As others have said, people without a short term view can understand rebuilding is not a linear progression. It is possible to not be happy with the current state and simultaneously feel good about where I believe us to be headed.
 
Let's just put it like this. The only ACC coaches I wouldn't take over Manning are Jim Christian, Kevin Stallings, and Josh Pastner. IMO we have a bottom 1/5 coach in the league and that isn't going to cut it.

But if he makes the dance next year and 4 out of 5 in subsequent years I'll eat my words.
 
To me offense's are easier taught (and rely more on natural ability) than defense because that is the AAU environment they (the players) mostly come from, but defense/rebounding are things that need and should be taught by good coaches. So far Manning has been sorely lacking in that area and defense is often the difference between good and mediocre teams.
 
sportsnut said:
To me offense's are easier taught (and rely more on natural ability) than defense because that is the AAU environment they (the players) mostly come from, but defense/rebounding are things that need and should be taught by good coaches. So far Manning has been sorely lacking in that area and defense is often the difference between good and mediocre teams.
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I tend to agree with this, but looking at this from another perspective, where do the coaches' responsibilities end, and the players' begin?
 
I’m sorry but it should not ever be a coaches responsibility to teach an ACC basketball player to rebound a basketball. I agree to an extent on defense in terms of scheme, but if a kid isn’t athletic enough to guard someone then that’s that.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I’m sorry but it should not ever be a coaches responsibility to teach an ACC basketball player to rebound a basketball. I agree to an extent on defense in terms of scheme, but if a kid isn’t athletic enough to guard someone then that’s that.
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Sorry but blocking out properly does require coaching (it is a large part of team rebounding) and an output of effort necessary to overcome physical limitations can be coached to some degree. As for scheme, if you know your players are not athletic enough to guard someone then make allowances for that, and that is coaching.
 
sportsnut said:
To me offense's are easier taught (and rely more on natural ability) than defense because that is the AAU environment they (the players) mostly come from, but defense/rebounding are things that need and should be taught by good coaches. So far Manning has been sorely lacking in that area and defense is often the difference between good and mediocre teams.
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I don't know about that

Man to man defense is universal, we have issues on basic rotations that are usually intuitive (which confuses me as to why we're so bad at them)

Offensive schemes can vary a ton from AAU to college
 
sportsnut said:
To me offense's are easier taught (and rely more on natural ability) than defense because that is the AAU environment they (the players) mostly come from, but defense/rebounding are things that need and should be taught by good coaches. So far Manning has been sorely lacking in that area and defense is often the difference between good and mediocre teams.
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In the past three years we were fourth in the ACC twice and fifth the other year in rebounding. That's consistently good considering our talent levels over those years. The concept that Danny doesn't teach rebounding is belied by the numbers.

I'm not all happy with this year's effort on the boards, but you can't say Danny doesn't teach rebounding.
 
Okay so say you’re right (which I was taught to box out properly in middle school. Seems far fetched to me that acc basketball players don’t know how to box out), how long would you expect a coach to spend on that? It may have taken me 10 minutes of one practice to learn to box out. Even then, getting a rebound is way more want to than boxing out “technique” (which is an insanely simple “technique”). In very competitive ball, I wasn’t taught to rebound past sixth grade. If you didn’t rebound the ball you sat for lack of effort and that was it. You will not be able to convince me that ACC basketball players don’t have any idea how to box out and get rebounds. It is effort and want-to, bottom line.
As for defense, yes it is teaching proper rotations when you’re not athletic enough to play man - but watch our games when we play zone. From what I’ve seen, it’s not a bad rotation so much as I.T is the inability of a guy like Mitchell Wilbekin to shift out to the wing shooter when the ball is swung around the key.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Okay so say you’re right (which I was taught to box out properly in middle school. Seems far fetched to me that acc basketball players don’t know how to box out), how long would you expect a coach to spend on that? It may have taken me 10 minutes of one practice to learn to box out. Even then, getting a rebound is way more want to than boxing out “technique” (which is an insanely simple “technique”). In very competitive ball, I wasn’t taught to rebound past sixth grade. If you didn’t rebound the ball you sat for lack of effort and that was it. You will not be able to convince me that ACC basketball players don’t have any idea how to box out and get rebounds. It is effort and want-to, bottom line.
As for defense, yes it is teaching proper rotations when you’re not athletic enough to play man - but watch our games when we play zone. From what I’ve seen, it’s not a bad rotation so much as I.T is the inability of a guy like Mitchell Wilbekin to shift out to the wing shooter when the ball is swung around the key.
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Let's hope Wellman puts your middle school coach's name on the short list while he makes his decision to fire coach Manning based on the OGB board's calm headed reaction to the first four games.
 
wfu22fan said:
Bzz was a good x and o coach and a better game coach than Manning. His problems were recruiting, personality and communication/pr.
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Lol, the whitewashing of [Redacted] continues. Jesus. Go pull up a tape of any game in his first three years. Just a bunch of guys standing still passing in a circle then Travis or Cody isolating a defender. I'm not even exaggerating.

I was accused by many of being "sunshine brigade" during the [Redacted] years for pointing out realistically what was going on while others freaked out and made signs about the seasons changing. I won't let y'alls bullshit memory whitewash what was a very painful four years for all of us.
 
birdman said:
College athletics is all about marketing the school to new students and pride for existing students and Alumni. So, when your school loses to a wildly substandard opponents it is a matter of pride not a matter of statistics and defensive efficiency. When you lose 4 out of 5 games to wildly substandard opponents, what pride is left? Of course the fan base is upset and some of them are even calling for firing the coach, because our pride is hurt and we are embarrassed. How the fuck am I supposed to talk sports with my asshole, Duke-alumni, brother-in-law on Thursday? "Well, sure Mike, we lost to Drake, but our defensive ratings aren't as bad as they were under [Redacted], and one our top players left school early to go pro in Greece, so I'm not all that embarrassed."
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Easy: talk about football.
 
Wait to talk to your brother- in- law until Saturday afternoon after the football game. :thumbsup:
 
22 with more hot takes. [Redacted] was a garbage coach and a shitty person. Going got tough and it was everyone else's fault. He blamed the kids. Over and over. F him. F you for supporting him. F Wellman for the FU to the fan base. Wellman blames kids too. Educators. F them. I've had a few but not enough to give Jeff [Redacted] an ounce of respect.
 
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