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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

bluefish said:
No. I was including all those leagues when I stated this. They can, and will, find better players. Unless he makes a massive progression between now and when he leaves, he will be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to pay him.
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Crawford is good enough to play pro ball somewhere, and I would be willing to bet that’s what ends up happening. A professional coach, be it NBA/Europe/etc., will force him to play within a system to continue his career and earn paychecks.
 
Fantasy is perhaps too strong a word, but Crawford not being on the roster next season was only a possibility while it was always a certainty that Dinos would be gone. Yet, Danny prioritized recruiting guards and wings, not big men.

ETA: and not a super strong possibility either. How many non-Euros leave early to play in Europe? Not many, it’s good money but not so good that a rookie deal provides more economic security than a college degree.
 
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To Danny’s credit, there was a pretty big drop off in big men talent after the first 10-15.
 
Ayo said:
NC State:
Lost top 3 scorers (43.9 PPG)
17 spots higher in KenPom


Florida State:
Lost top 3 scorers (39.8 PPG)
55 spots higher in KenPom

Virginia Tech:
Lost top 2 scorers, as well as Outlaw (48.7% from 3) and their big Sy (40.1 PPG)
35 spots higher in KenPom



Keep dem excuses coming.
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Any of the Manning defenders going to address Ayo's post? Or, just going to ignore it and continue to tell us that Manning couldn't possibly be expected to do any more with this team after the loss of Collins, Dinos and Arians?
 
WFU Lurker said:
Fantasy is perhaps too strong a word, but Crawford not being on the roster next season was only a possibility while it was always a certainty that Dinos would be gone. Yet, Danny prioritized recruiting guards and wings, not big men.

ETA: and not a super strong possibility either. How many non-Euros leave early to play in Europe? Not many, it’s good money but not so good that a rookie deal provides more economic security than a college degree.
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At what date prior to July 2017 did this certainty that Dinos would be gone by the fall of 2017 exist in your world?
 
I don’t understand how people can argue out one side of their mouth that Manning is a good recruiter, but out of the other side of their mouth argue that our issues this year are due to a lack of talent IN YEAR FOUR under Manning. Either he’s underperforming based on the talent he has or he is underperforming in bringing in or developing talent (or both).
 
deac29 said:
I don’t understand how people can argue out one side of their mouth that Manning is a good recruiter, but out of the other side of their mouth argue that our issues this year are due to a lack of talent IN YEAR FOUR under Manning. Either he’s underperforming based on the talent he has or he is underperforming in bringing in or developing talent (or both).
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There is a difference between being a good recruiter and being someone who can summon top talent to Wake on two weeks notice. Recruiting to Wake takes some time and patience. The coaches need to build relationships with the recruits, their teachers, coaches and families. When Dinos left, it was well past both early and regular signing days. Remember, Wake has all of the freshmen expected in fall 2018 already signed.

Danny had some months to prepare for Collins departure. About this time last year, once it became clear that Collins production would continue against ACC competition, it was reasonable to guess that he might leave at the end of the 2017 season.

Dinos, from everything we know, was planning to return to Wake for his senior season until the Greek team dumped a very large pile of cash in front of him in July. That left Danny with a big hole to fill after even most of the grad transfer talent had committed elsewhere.
 
Blue you are correct, but by the time JC's improvement had been seen by all the top 2017 players had committed.
 
oldschooldeac said:
Any of the Manning defenders going to address Ayo's post? Or, just going to ignore it and continue to tell us that Manning couldn't possibly be expected to do any more with this team after the loss of Collins, Dinos and Arians?
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Clemson also lost Blossomgame (1st team All-ACC as a junior, 2nd team as a senior) and #3 scorer Holmes, who accounted for 28.0 PPG. And they've improved by 30 spots in KenPom (#45 last season, #15 this season). Probably has something to do with having a coach who has a clue how to coach defense. :noidea:
 
RJKarl said:
Blue you are correct, but by the time JC's improvement had been seen by all the top 2017 players had committed.
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Yes, it wasn't obvious by the November signing day that John Collins improvement was so great that he was a first round NBA pick. He definitely was improved sophomore over freshman year, but it took some games into the ACC season to say that the improvement was great enough to expect him to leave at the end of the 2016-17 season.
 
bluefish said:
No. I was including all those leagues when I stated this. They can, and will, find better players. Unless he makes a massive progression between now and when he leaves, he will be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to pay him.
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Respectfully disagree on Craw getting paid. Like him doing what he does best. He can shoot it, decent handle and can run well.
Can't do it all and proved again yesterday on the selfcheck rimdunk that he doesn't have the hops he thinks he does. You may not realize that 13 former Deacons are currently getting paid for playing in leagues non NBA or G.
JGray, CJ, McKie, CMM, Rountree, Dreamweaver, and LD as some.
Not to mention Ish proving that your development can continue long after you leaves MSD.
 
There’s really no excuse for us to be this bad in year four of the supposed rebuild, and recruiting and talent development aside, the most distressing part is that Danny has shown time and time again that he lacks critical coaching skills during the game. All that other stuff is just bullshit at the end of the day. Either you are leading your teams to victories through disciplined game planning, practice and execution or you’re not. Danny just isn’t and hasn’t. Any coach at this level would have had success with JC last year. Arguably, we underperformed by a lot. I mean we barely got to the play-in game for the tourney and we lost that. What successes have happened under DM?

I like the guy, but he’s doing the same dumb, mind boggling, asinine coaching in a game in year four as he did in year one. Not sure we have a reason to think that’s all of a sudden going to stop. And I for one think winning a game in the NCAAT is a minimum expectation. Some here would see that as some major victory for the program. Lots of LOWF mentality here concerning DM and the direction, or lack thereof, for our flagship program...
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
There’s really no excuse for us to be this bad in year four of the supposed rebuild, and recruiting and talent development aside, the most distressing part is that Danny has shown time and time again that he lacks critical coaching skills during the game. All that other stuff is just bullshit at the end of the day. Either you are leading your teams to victories through disciplined game planning, practice and execution or you’re not. Danny just isn’t and hasn’t. Any coach at this level would have had success with JC last year. Arguably, we underperformed by a lot. I mean we barely got to the play-in game for the tourney and we lost that. What successes have happened under DM?

I like the guy, but he’s doing the same dumb, mind boggling, asinine coaching in a game in year four as he did in year one. Not sure we have a reason to think that’s all of a sudden going to stop. And I for one think winning a game in the NCAAT is a minimum expectation. Some here would see that as some major victory for the program. Lots of LOWF mentality here concerning DM and the direction, or lack thereof, for our flagship program...
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Year four of a rebuild that came after a four year rebuild.
 
Ayo said:
Clemson also lost Blossomgame (1st team All-ACC as a junior, 2nd team as a senior) and #3 scorer Holmes, who accounted for 28.0 PPG. And they've improved by 30 spots in KenPom (#45 last season, #15 this season). Probably has something to do with having a coach who has a clue how to coach defense. :noidea:
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Coaches plan on seniors leaving. And they can recruit to the long expected open spot.

It is difficult for Tier 2 schools to get a positive response to the pitch of "come sit behind a two year starter then start as a sophomore" which is what Wake was looking like with Collins and Moore in 2015-2016 when the fall 2017 class was being recruited. Most Fall 2017 entering freshmen signed Letters of Intent in November 2016. During most of the recruiting period leading to Signing Day 2016, Collins looked like a raw foul a minute freshman who had flashes of skill in the limited playing time he got. But he and/or Moore were obvious starters for the next three seasons. Not a scenario many bigs would want at a tier 2 school.
 
Ayo said:
Clemson also lost Blossomgame (1st team All-ACC as a junior, 2nd team as a senior) and #3 scorer Holmes, who accounted for 28.0 PPG. And they've improved by 30 spots in KenPom (#45 last season, #15 this season). Probably has something to do with having a coach who has a clue how to coach defense. :noidea:
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Yup, and this. The coaches have consistently shown a lack of desire to play solid defense. If the reason we were losing football games was because the DC was terrible at that job, people would be calling for that person’s head. I think our defensive schemes are the majority of the reason for a lot of our losses (my favorite in the DM era was sticking Wilbekin on Luke Kennard while he constantly ran the smaller/slower MW off screens all game and torched us for 34, including the game winning shot with 6 seconds left).

One more year. If we don’t see a complete 180 next year, we need to burn this program to the ground and start over...
 
Part of our reality on the recruiting trail is that we are lucky if we can get two top recruits in one year. Prior to this year many saw Chaundee providing immediate help. We've only seen a couple of flashes but he clearly didn't hit the ground running. We are heavily dependent on our top recruits making a significant contribution from game 1 that hasn't happened this year.
 
All this Clemson talk is dumb. Wasn’t blossomgame a senior? That’s not an unexpected departure. How about Holmes? Either way, you’re using a very small sample size to argue your point.
 
Lol come on Ayo, how ya gonna neg rep me for that?

You're comparing apples and oranges and I commented on it.
 
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