Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[knowell]

You need to start mixing in that you get something if you're right on these bets. The only thing you win currently is to stick around here, which you didn't have to win a bet to maintain.

We should give him the green at least.

 

[wakelaw13]

I thought of this guy when the Jags beat the Steelers and then when it looked like they were going to the super bowl. I hope he enjoyed the run, because he's brought me many laughs over the years.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

You need to start mixing in that you get something if you're right on these bets. The only thing you win currently is to stick around here, which you didn't have to win a bet to maintain.

Well, plus being right. Being right is always gratifying for me, at least.

 

[Buttermaker]

Crawford's main problem is that he does not have a point guard mentality. His decision making has regressed since his freshman year for some reason. He never makes the simple play.

Mannings major problem at Wake may have been giving Crawford the point guard reins as a frosh.

I have been of the opinion that Mannings first recruiting decision at Wake was his worst. That was when he did not honor(as it appears) the commitment of Shelton Mitchell. Mitchell is having a tremendous impact as the point guard at Clemson. He averages over 12 points a game and is a true point guard. Mitchell would be a great asset on this Wake team.

IF true, that was a stupid decision that backfired.

 

[wakephan09]

I remember it, towards the end of the first half because I can picture them going left to right. I kind of recall Chill waiting for it and Crawford didn't give it up, but maybe it happened more than once.

Weird, I remember observing this moment, but I remember it going right to left (or it happening, at least, on the right side of the court).

 

[awaken]

Manning is a strong recruiter and developer of talent, especially big's. He's a family man who isn't going to embarrass the University. Those are his obvious strengths. His weaknesses have been discussed in detail and we don't need to get back into that.

I want to go on the record(not trolling like yesterday) that Danny is THE guy for Wake. His model of developing talent and his upswing in recruiting can't be overlooked. People saying John Collins came in and was the same player he left as are just plain wrong. The most telling improvement is his development of Moore.

I don't think Danny is ever going to X and O us to wins but I think he is ultimately going to build something similar to UNC/Kansas. We're all frustrated right now and it's hard to wrap our minds around where we are as program, so the easy way out is to shout FIRE WELLMAN FIRE DANNY!! BURN IT DOWN!! None of those are the solutions to where we are right now.

I asked the mods to give me the perma-ban if Wake didn't land Hoard for 2018. I'm going to up the ante...

I'm going on the record right now in saying that Wake will win a game in the NCAA Tourney next year. That means field of 64 at least advancing to round of 32, not play in games. If we don't win a game in the tourney next year, then I want to be permanently banned from the boards.

He's going to work out, guys. And we are going to be good again. His model is taking longer than we'd all like, primarily due to early departures and starting with wake's rep in the cellar.

 

[wakelaw13]

Weird, I remember observing this moment, but I remember it going right to left (or it happening, at least, on the right side of the court).

That's what I meant, and I said it incorrectly. They were going right to left, and it happened on the right side of the court.

 

[Demonwolverine]

Probably what makes me the most nervous is watching what is going on at Alabama with a former NBA Coach of the Year struggling to crack the top 60 in Kenpom with the #6 recruiting class and arguably the best point guard in the country. If you watch their games, their style looks eerily similar to ours, and it really makes me question why NBA coaches think college teams can run NBA offenses.

When teams play zone against us, we have a few working strategies. But when teams go man to man, it seems like our only options are on the ball screens and lobs to Moore. We have flashed the weave at least once this season, and it worked well. So I'm really not sure why when Duke was all in our passing lanes, we didn't at least try to weave them up top and open up driving lanes. It's not the most difficult thing to defend, but it's also not the most difficult thing to learn, and it's a very simple kink we could throw into our man to man "offense". Other than that, if we're going to play Sarr and Moore so much, I'd like to see more low post screens to get those guys open. Even if the defenders just switch, very few teams have 1 player that can guard Moore on the block, let alone 2. Sarr has shown quickness from the short corner, so if he drifts out with the opposing center on him, I think he could either take them off the dribble or drain that nice jumper he has (obviously could be Mitchell). It would also maybe stretch their center out of the lane. I know everyone on our team doesn't have the most diverse skill set, so mismatches created by switches aren't abundant. But there are definitely advantages to be had given Craw's size and ability, Chill's speed, Moore's size, Sarr's size and shot, and Chaundee just being a freak. And who knows, if you make the defense switch enough, maybe they'll lose Wilbekin more often.

 

[scooter84]

Probably what makes me the most nervous is watching what is going on at Alabama with a former NBA Coach of the Year struggling to crack the top 60 in Kenpom with the #6 recruiting class and arguably the best point guard in the country. If you watch their games, their style looks eerily similar to ours, and it really makes me question why NBA coaches think college teams can run NBA offenses.

When teams play zone against us, we have a few working strategies. But when teams go man to man, it seems like our only options are on the ball screens and lobs to Moore. We have flashed the weave at least once this season, and it worked well. So I'm really not sure why when Duke was all in our passing lanes, we didn't at least try to weave them up top and open up driving lanes. It's not the most difficult thing to defend, but it's also not the most difficult thing to learn, and it's a very simple kink we could throw into our man to man "offense". Other than that, if we're going to play Sarr and Moore so much, I'd like to see more low post screens to get those guys open. Even if the defenders just switch, very few teams have 1 player that can guard Moore on the block, let alone 2. Sarr has shown quickness from the short corner, so if he drifts out with the opposing center on him, I think he could either take them off the dribble or drain that nice jumper he has. I know everyone on our team doesn't have the most diverse skill set, so mismatches created by switches aren't abundant. But there are definitely advantages to be had given Craw's ability, Chill's speed, Moore's size, Sarr's size and shot, and Chaundee just being a freak. And who knows, if you make the defense switch enough, maybe they'll lose Wilbekin more often.

Just stop it with the logic and simplicity.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

Probably what makes me the most nervous is watching what is going on at Alabama with a former NBA Coach of the Year struggling to crack the top 60 in Kenpom with the #6 recruiting class and arguably the best point guard in the country. If you watch their games, their style looks eerily similar to ours, and it really makes me question why NBA coaches think college teams can run NBA offenses.

When teams play zone against us, we have a few working strategies. But when teams go man to man, it seems like our only options are on the ball screens and lobs to Moore. We have flashed the weave at least once this season, and it worked well. So I'm really not sure why when Duke was all in our passing lanes, we didn't at least try to weave them up top and open up driving lanes. It's not the most difficult thing to defend, but it's also not the most difficult thing to learn, and it's a very simple kink we could throw into our man to man "offense". Other than that, if we're going to play Sarr and Moore so much, I'd like to see more low post screens to get those guys open. Even if the defenders just switch, very few teams have 1 player that can guard Moore on the block, let alone 2. Sarr has shown quickness from the short corner, so if he drifts out with the opposing center on him, I think he could either take them off the dribble or drain that nice jumper he has (obviously could be Mitchell). It would also maybe stretch their center out of the lane. I know everyone on our team doesn't have the most diverse skill set, so mismatches created by switches aren't abundant. But there are definitely advantages to be had given Craw's size and ability, Chill's speed, Moore's size, Sarr's size and shot, and Chaundee just being a freak. And who knows, if you make the defense switch enough, maybe they'll lose Wilbekin more often.

We also did better with less last year under Danny, as a small counter point to the Alabama thing.

 

[RacerDeac]

I think the primary difference is that Manning is busting his ass, and [name redacted] actually didn't give a rip. People may wish that Manning would be a little more engaged during the games, and I tend to agree, but [name redacted] wasn't engaged anywhere; not on the recruiting trail, not in practice, and certainly not on the court. I tend to believe that Manning's work ethic and passion will pay off, but he wouldn't be the first former player with those traits that didn't develop into a good head coach.

I'm calling bullshit there. As much as I hated [Redacted], and I was one of his biggest haters, you don't end up with the career he has had without busting your ass. He may not have known where to focus his efforts or have had the right skills for the job, but it's absurd to suggest he just didn't care at all.

 

[RacerDeac]

I don't think Danny is ever going to X and O us to wins but I think he is ultimately going to build something similar to UNC/Kansas. We're all frustrated right now and it's hard to wrap our minds around where we are as program, so the easy way out is to shout FIRE WELLMAN FIRE DANNY!! BURN IT DOWN!! None of those are the solutions to where we are right now.

So, by constantly losing to teams with less talent, and "peaking" at finishing 10th in conference and getting blown out of a NCAA playin game with two guys who jumped early to get paid, we're actually really just building a perineal winner lead by a hall of fame coach who will constantly attract top talent and win many championships? Tell me more about how all of this will develop in Manning 3rd decade of coaching despite no actual evidence in the first 15 years so far.

 

[RacerDeac]

We also did better with less last year under Danny, as a small counter point to the Alabama thing.

Do you honestly feel like we overachieved last year though? Is a flame out in the NCAA play-in game and 10th place in conference really the high mark for a team with two Pros or is it just the high mark for a team with two Pros coached by Manning?

 

[sportsnut]

Couple of things, had major issues with the Buzzer but not whether he cared or worked hard. He just didn't understand the difference in working hard and working smart
Love you Creamy and enjoy your posts, however the thing which gives me great pause with Manning is his seeming inability or unwillingness to change when the situation warrants it. When he shows that ability to go along with his recruiting, then I think we will have a winner, but not until then

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

Do you honestly feel like we overachieved last year though? Is a flame out in the NCAA play-in game and 10th place in conference really the high mark for a team with two Pros or is it just the high mark for a team with two Pros coached by Manning?

I was saying we were better than Alabama last year with less, but I think we did overachieve slightly last year thanks to Manning’s player development abilities. Counter to that, we are underachieving this year.

 

[wsc8521s]

Do you honestly feel like we overachieved last year though? Is a flame out in the NCAA play-in game and 10th place in conference really the high mark for a team with two Pros or is it just the high mark for a team with two Pros coached by Manning?

Especially for a team with the best player in the conference on its roster (don't care what the media poll said). Usually teams with the best player aren't coming in 10th

 

[CreamyGoodness]

So, by constantly losing to teams with less talent, and "peaking" at finishing 10th in conference and getting blown out of a NCAA playin game with two guys who jumped early to get paid, we're actually really just building a perineal winner lead by a hall of fame coach who will constantly attract top talent and win many championships? Tell me more about how all of this will develop in Manning 3rd decade of coaching despite no actual evidence in the first 15 years so far.

Look at the shit stained roster than Danny took over. He busted his ass to get Dinos and snagged Collins out of his hometown in the 11th hour. It can't be said enough that Wake forest isn't a basketball factory that can just reload. We can't lose our starting front court to pro ball and just keep the momentum. If one or both of those guys stayed, I feel pretty confident that this thread wouldn't be bumped and you would still be in hiding.

Now, should we beat the likes of Drake every single year no matter what? Hell yeah, we should. Inexcusable. I still see Danny building a program with 3 and 4 year players(top 150 recruits) that will turn us into a perennial tourney team that everyone here so desires.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Couple of things, had major issues with the Buzzer but not whether he cared or worked hard. He just didn't understand the difference in working hard and working smart
Love you Creamy and enjoy your posts, however the thing which gives me great pause with Manning is his seeming inability or unwillingness to change when the situation warrants it. When he shows that ability to go along with his recruiting, then I think we will have a winner, but not until then

Thanks man, all love here too.

My rebuttal to this is look at Clawson. People here were freaking out that he was running the same, tired, bull shit offense for 2 seasons without the personnel to back it up. He was stubborn and refused to bend on what he wanted to build. Clawson then got his guys and things are looking up. My hopes are the same works out for Danny. I don't disagree that right now, it looks like Danny is going about things the wrong way.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Do you honestly feel like we overachieved last year though? Is a flame out in the NCAA play-in game and 10th place in conference really the high mark for a team with two Pros or is it just the high mark for a team with two Pros coached by Manning?

We absolutely overachieved last year. We were all hoping for an NIT berth. Some had us on the bubble. None of the pundits gave us a shot.

Especially for a team with the best player in the conference on its roster (don't care what the media poll said). Usually teams with the best player aren't coming in 10th

JC was not the best player in the conference going into the season. Danny did a hell of job with him and made him the best player in the conference. 10th in the ACC shouldn't be and isn't our goal, but we also sported the #SOS last year, right? If not, very close.

 

[wsc8521s]

Yeah, Danny gets props for that. He's not a complete idiot bozo moron, he can do some stuff. Whether he gets us to the perennial tourney status you outlined above however is very much in doubt