• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Yep. Or we could hire a promising assistant coach for half of that.

I don’t think the job is going to be more promising after another year of bad coach. I don’t think we will attract any top mid-major coaches regardless.

Yea I don’t get the whole “you must pay 2 million a year to an ACC coach.” If the best candidate (aka Miller) is willing to sign a 4 year deal for 300k, the answer is Yes.
 
If Manning had followed Dino I would completely agree. He didn’t. Keats has a ton of talent on his team and is having a similar season to what Manning did last year. There is a reason Gottfried was fired.

Keats might have some talent, but let’s no act like he has more talent than UNC who he just finished above in the standings.

The only reason Manning has struggled this year is Manning. He hasn’t motivated the players, he hasn’t put them in positions to win with line-ups, and he hasn’t disciplined players when they are out of control. It has been a difficult season, but a lot of this is Manning’s doing.
 
He won’t get outworked that I can assure you.

You can "outwork" other coaches and still get beaten for recruits.

Danny Manning's name gets him into some living rooms other guys can't.

It was unfortunate that Danny's NBA acquaintance living next to Ayo's uncle was an Illinois guy. Any other school and that's a major plus.
 
Do you have any idea he can recruit at an ACC-level?

Is Manning currently? Seems like we have about three players on the roster that are ACC players. I guess Woods and Childress could be considered quality subs on an ACC team. I am excited to see Hoard and Mucius play but I don’t understand how Manning let the roster deteriorate to the state it is currently in. I mean how much worse can we be? We lost to Georgia Southern, Drake, Liberty and won only three games in the ACC. Hire almost anyone and we would not be much worse than we performed this year.
 
Yea I don’t get the whole “you must pay 2 million a year to an ACC coach.” If the best candidate (aka Miller) is willing to sign a 4 year deal for 300k, the answer is Yes.

We'd be paying him with his dad's money anyway.

Based on what we know about coach's salaries, any established coach would be worth way more than $2 million. And that figure would be overpaying any up and coming coach unless we're in a battle for his services. Any coach we'd likely get could be gotten for much cheaper.
 
Is Manning currently? Seems like we have about three players on the roster that are ACC players. I guess Woods and Childress could be considered quality subs on an ACC team. I am excited to see Hoard and Mucius play but I don’t understand how Manning let the roster deteriorate to the state it is currently in. I mean how much worse can we be? We lost to Georgia Southern, Drake, Liberty and won only three games in the ACC. Hire almost anyone and we would not be much worse than we performed this year.

Exhibit A of short term memory.
 
What am I missing? One first four appearance when we lost 13 games last year with an NBA first rounder on the team? We have had and continue to have an ACC talent deficiency and if you cannot see that, I am not sure what to say. Even Dinos was a marginal ACC talent compared to our 90s and 2000s teams. That is on Manning.
 
We'd be paying him with his dad's money anyway.

Based on what we know about coach's salaries, any established coach would be worth way more than $2 million. And that figure would be overpaying any up and coming coach unless we're in a battle for his services. Any coach we'd likely get could be gotten for much cheaper.

You raise a a good point. Why haven’t we asked Ken & others to just write a check to Manning to go away if Wes gets the job. While this would normally be inappropriate, once we all agree it would be much better for Wes to be our Coach, then it’s silly not to at least ask. I’m betting the answer would be yes. Saves us a ton of money and immediately upgrades us.
 
No. The real question is how would we fire a big donor's kid. Could we just count his allowances as the buyout?
 
No. The real question is how would we fire a big donor's kid. Could we just count his allowances as the buyout?

You fire him. You move on. This governing out of fear is silly. Costs many a great business so much. Like Wake hoops.
 
WES vs. FORBES II.

Coming soon to a Conference USA floor near you!
 
What am I missing? One first four appearance when we lost 13 games last year with an NBA first rounder on the team? We have had and continue to have an ACC talent deficiency and if you cannot see that, I am not sure what to say. Even Dinos was a marginal ACC talent compared to our 90s and 2000s teams. That is on Manning.

You stated that Manning has "let the roster deteriorate." He inherited two ACC level players - Codi and Devin. The freshmen were his recruits.

This year Doral, Crawford, Chaundee, Woods, BChill, Mitchell, Sarr. I'm counting starters, good subs and developing young players who contribute.
 
Not necessarily on Wes, but overall.
 
Terminating Manning requires no explanation. Two twenty loss seasons in a three year period is sufficient.
 
I still prefer Kelsey, but I'm on board.

I think Manning provided a needed step and distance from the Dino/Bz situations (although the step was much smaller and incremental than most expected/would have liked) but it's obvious he's not the one to take the next step. We have nothing to lose on taking a flyer on an up and goner. Manning has restocked the cupboard so someone new has at least some talent to work with.
 
Let's say some of you get your wish and Danny gets fired this year. Then here is the Wake track record:

* Gaudio gets fired in 3 years after making the NCAA.
* [name redacted] takes over, does a miserable job, and leaves the program talent-depleted after 4 years. Fans put up billboards around town calling for his firing and then roll the quad when he gets fired.
* Manning gets Wake back to the tourney in year 3, develops a first rounder, has his entire starting front court go pro early, then has a miserable year 4, although has a top 15 recruiting class coming in.

How appealing does that situation look to a new coach from a job security perspective. He's getting another year, and he should.

There aren't really any direct parallels because there aren't really many high major programs that have been run as poorly as Wake has been for the last 8 years. Here are some seemingly bad / impatient situations where big coaching upgrades were made:
-NCSU: Gottfried made 4 NCAAT in 6 years. He was forced to make changes to his coaching staff after his first sub 20 win season and then fired before his second sub 20 win season was even over. NCSU was widely bashed in the media (to a much greater extent than Wake was for firing Dino) yet managed to hire a coach who had won 72 games in three years at a program that won 29 games in the three prior years.
-Missouri: Haith was pushed out after three 23+ win seasons, including the best regular season in program history. Kim Anderson was then fired after three seasons. They hired Cuonzo Martin who made the post season in 5 of his 6 seasons at power conference programs.
-Arkansas: Nolan Richardson was fired when he wasn't on track to make the post season after 15 straight appearances (only 2 of those were NIT appearances), including two final 4s and a national championship. Stan Heath was fired after 5 seasons, his teams steadily improved over the first 4 before a slight setback in the 5th (still won 21 games and made the NCAAT). John Pelphrey was fired after 4 seasons, 3 of which included 7 or more conference wins. They hired Mike Anderson who averaged over 25 wins in his last three years at Missouri.
-Mississippi State: Rick Stansbury averaged 21 wins over 14 years and had only missed the post season 3 times when he was fired. Rick Ray was only given 3 years and doubled his conference wins in his 3rd season. They hired Ben Howland, who really needs no introduction.
-TCU: Jim Christian was fired after 4 seasons. In his 4th, they went 0.500 in conference for the first time in 7 seasons. Trent Johnson was also fired after 4 seasons. They hired Jamie Dixon, who also really needs no introduction
-LSU: John Brady was fired less than 2 years after making the final 4 and winning the SEC. Trent Johnson was fired after 4 seasons, including 2 post season appearances and a SEC championship. His 2nd and 3rd seasons were bad, but the program improved by 7 wins in his 4th season. Not enough. Johnny Jones was then fired in his 5th season, his only season without a 0.500 or better conference record. They hired Will Wade, who turned around Chattanooga (40 wins in his 2 years, compared to 24 in the 2 prior) and won 51 games in 2 years at VCU.
-Virginia Tech: In the 17 seasons before Seth Greenburg, VT made the post-season twice. Greenburg did it 5 times in 9 years. They replaced him with James Johnson who they then fired after two seasons. They hired Buzz Williams, who averaged 23 wins at Marquette.

Yes, some of those programs had a downgrade along the journey, but usually only when they "got greedy" with a very short leash for a coach who was still winning games (e.g. similar to Missouri w/ Haith or Wake w/ Dino). We already took our medicine for being impatient with Dino.

I am actually in favor of giving Danny another year, but your argument is bad. Wake is an ACC program with a top notch, dedicated basketball facility under-construction and greater resources for salary than in years past (given new ACC TV revenue, lack of a Grobe buyout, presumably much better football revenues, and probably marginally better basketball revenues). No candidate is going to turn that down because we fired a guy who won 13 games or fewer in three of his four seasons, even if he did make the tournament as an 11 seed in the other season.

ETA: forgot Virginia Tech.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top